Harvest needs a big nerf for next league.

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Phrazz เขียน:

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I_NO เขียน:

probably 99% of you defending this is like this guy probably.

People who are defending it, is probably not living on the TFT server, trading in stuff GGG never meant to be traded - but playing the game.

For people like you, playing all the time and trading a lot, Harvest might ne broken. Luckily, you aren't neither the blueprint of a PoE player, nor the average PoE player. Players like you will always find a way to obtain "the best" items. Good for you. But I really couldn't care how easy it is for you :)

Who is that mythic average player then? Because going by challenge data the average player probably barely reaches red maps, doesn't kill Sirus 8 and likely sees less than 5 good harvest crafts a league under the current system, I would imagine that comparing the gear of these players in heist league vs now there is barely a noticeable difference whereas the top end has vastly better gear now than they would have in a harvest-less system. So why exactly is it good for the "average player" that the top 10% get vastly better gear now?

After all it only takes away from the average player anyway.
ANY decently rolled rares are worthless vendor junk now, whereas lower tier players could squeeze out atleast some chaos before.
Plus the average player probably doesnt TFT trade a lot thus missing out on even more currency that might have come his way.
However the way is not making the craft-trading even easier. Maybe introduce some more general mod-tags just for harvest so the remove/add spam becomes less powerful.

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Sarciss เขียน:

After all it only takes away from the average player anyway.
ANY decently rolled rares are worthless vendor junk now, whereas lower tier players could squeeze out atleast some chaos before.
Plus the average player probably doesnt TFT trade a lot thus missing out on even more currency that might have come his way.
However the way is not making the craft-trading even easier. Maybe introduce some more general mod-tags just for harvest so the remove/add spam becomes less powerful.

To add onto that Harvest barely produces "throwaway items" like the old crafting did. Last league when crafting myself a new chest I "accidentally" produced 3 pretty decent chests that I sold at cost basis to fund further crafts, in a harvest world those items never exist, meaning players don't get to buy these cheap throwaways, since now the opportunity cost of finishing an item is so low.

I was searching for minor upgrades for my bossing char recently, my choices were either 7ex for a "bricked" awakenened base (i.e. a result of an awakener orb that can't be properly harvest crafted) or finished amulets for 50ex, last league for similar items I had choices all the way from the same 7ex bricked bases along 15ex okay-ish items, to 30ex items with some good mods to 150ex ggg items. If I'm a new-ish player without access to TFT now my only choice is farming 50ex for the good item or being stuck with a 7ex brick.

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Aim_Deep เขียน:

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Gulch เขียน:

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Aim_Deep เขียน:

That's why in day 2 people were running around with quad influenced explody chests.

So what? They were high enough level to get the base, maybe traded for the Crusader orb or even dropped that base already influenced, slam it and get the explody mod.
It's not rocket science, it's one of the easiest things to craft to be honest.

This is not what being crafted. Perfect items are head to toe and way too easy because you can trade them to people who have craft desired. GGG obviously didnt want this making crafts account bound and limit of 10.

And this matters how? If people have the best chest piece in the game possible by day 2 how does that affect you or I?
Answer: It doesn't.
If people craft gear that makes them immortal, how does that affect you or I? It doesn't.
Every league there are people that can kill bosses in .2 seconds or stand in the Sirus storms, why should we care? I play the game for me, I don't play it worrying about what other people have or have achieved and bitch about it on the forums.

If these people can use whatever the league gives them and take full advantage of it...let them. People that complain about what other people have every league is plain dumb.

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To add onto that Harvest barely produces "throwaway items" like the old crafting did. Last league when crafting myself a new chest I "accidentally" produced 3 pretty decent chests that I sold at cost basis to fund further crafts, in a harvest world those items never exist, meaning players don't get to buy these cheap throwaways, since now the opportunity cost of finishing an item is so low.

+1

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If these people can use whatever the league gives them and take full advantage of it...let them. People that complain about what other people have every league is plain dumb.

Thinking this doesnt affect everyone in some way is plain dumb.
It effects economy, it affects game balance and thus further content balancing/creation and after all affects player retention.
Thinking that you somehow play this game in an insulated environment, unaffected by godtier items created left and right (not just by .1% of the playerbase) without the usually needed corresponding playtime, is pretty delusional.

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Sarciss เขียน:

ANY decently rolled rares are worthless vendor junk now

I see it the other way around; any decently rolled rare is a possible amazing craft. Yes, the bar of "decent items" has increased, but so has the difficulty/power creep of the game/monsters.

Crafting used to be gated around high amounts of currency; at least crafting in a way that mitigates the RNG slightly. Crafting is now available to anyone. Should Harvest be more limited? Sure, they could make influenced gear not craftable in Harvest, so the "elites" could have them for themselves, crafting them and selling them to the plebs, being glad they have some content for themselves.

I wouldn't cry if they limited Harvest more than now, and I see the arguments. But what I like most about Harvest, is that it gives you a reason to farm - other than just farming currency. You have a deterministic way of improving your character - step by step - without buying everything. It's called a "steady progression", which this game has lacked since forever. Hell, I wouldn't cry if they made Harvest crafted gear account bound, but it will never happen.

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I see it the other way around; any decently rolled rare is a possible amazing craft.

thats just another point... thousands of "potential" items are rotting in stashes in leagues with harvest. These are usually decent (cheap) midtier/endtier upgrades for the average player, now they rot in stashes waiting to never be finished lol.

I hope they buff harvest and introduce tradeable harvest orbs that store a single craft. It'd be interesting to see what would happen in trade leagues.

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Sarciss เขียน:

thats just another point... thousands of "potential" items are rotting in stashes in leagues with harvest. These are usually decent (cheap) midtier/endtier upgrades for the average player, now they rot in stashes waiting to never be finished lol.

The bar of what's "decent" is constantly being moved, and has always moved along with the power creep. First came shaper/elder influence, then came conqueror influence. In-betweem, we had multicraft, betrayal crafts and so on. This league, Maven orb is moving the bar of what's possible at the high end. Increasing the bar for the low end too, is a no-brainer when 10-boss fights and the Maven fight - as well as Sirus influenced monsters are giving more challenges.

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stnikolauswagne เขียน:

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Phrazz เขียน:

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I_NO เขียน:

probably 99% of you defending this is like this guy probably.

People who are defending it, is probably not living on the TFT server, trading in stuff GGG never meant to be traded - but playing the game.

For people like you, playing all the time and trading a lot, Harvest might ne broken. Luckily, you aren't neither the blueprint of a PoE player, nor the average PoE player. Players like you will always find a way to obtain "the best" items. Good for you. But I really couldn't care how easy it is for you :)

Who is that mythic average player then? Because going by challenge data the average player probably barely reaches red maps, doesn't kill Sirus 8 and likely sees less than 5 good harvest crafts a league under the current system, I would imagine that comparing the gear of these players in heist league vs now there is barely a noticeable difference whereas the top end has vastly better gear now than they would have in a harvest-less system. So why exactly is it good for the "average player" that the top 10% get vastly better gear now?

I doubt you are correct on that, but we don't know as only GGG has the data. I think that harvest makes crafting easier available to the majority of players and especially increases longevity of the game by a lot.

If you haven't noticed yet, at a certain point with a decent (not broken meta build), you will always run into a wall and forced to be trading in order to get better gear.

But the majority of people - and I am 100% positive on that statement - doesn't like excessive trading in an action RPG. It's just a nuisance. After a late league start, I once had to trade myself to the top as well. It was just super boring. If I want to trade, why would I do that in an action RPG?!?

Making crafting more accessible to the average player was the right step. More people will play the game longer. The only people whining are the ones who are now not alone at the top anymore. Cannot offer mirror services anymore. Cannot sell pixels for real money anymore. What a pity.