Dear GGG, your daily reminder that your game rocks

Just another daily reminder to fill the sea of negativity by saying the game rocks and even though it can use some fine tuning and adjustment. The core of the game and the vision/direction of the game kicks butt.


and the numbers don't lie about it. POE 2 has already smashed POE 1 in average players and peak players and POE 1 has been out for 10+ years.

POE 1- Average daily players never got past 70k in its entire lifespan, had a far inferior launch (lost close to 50% of its player base)

https://steamcharts.com/app/238960

POE 2- Launched with higher numbers than ever posted by POE 1, even 3 months later is still higher than 80% of the 10 year span of POE 1, and has similar loss of average players (approx 50%)

https://steamcharts.com/app/2694490

+1

People use the cope that 0.2 is getting similar number to poe1. But they fail to mention that 0.2 is getting similar numbers to the MOST SUCCESSFUL LEAGUE IN POE1 EVER.

They fail to mention the bad leagues in poe1 or the mediocre ones.

Poe2 has been far more successful and profitable then poe1 ever was.

"

Hyperspacing#5593 เขียน:

Just another daily reminder to fill the sea of negativity by saying the game rocks and even though it can use some fine tuning and adjustment. The core of the game and the vision/direction of the game kicks butt.


and the numbers don't lie about it. POE 2 has already smashed POE 1 in average players and peak players and POE 1 has been out for 10+ years.

POE 1- Average daily players never got past 70k in its entire lifespan, had a far inferior launch (lost close to 50% of its player base)

https://steamcharts.com/app/238960

POE 2- Launched with higher numbers than ever posted by POE 1, even 3 months later is still higher than 80% of the 10 year span of POE 1, and has similar loss of average players (approx 50%)

https://steamcharts.com/app/2694490

Even in the link you shared, PoE1 had in August 2024 over 75k avg players. There is a reason why "Settlers of Kalguur" is considered the most successful league.
And PoE1 was close before April 2023 with 68k.

Furthermore, it's a dishonest point anyway. PoE1 constantly grew over the years from league to league; good retention, while PoE2 is tanking since launch.

On top, the Steam numbers for PoE2 are inflated and not really comparable to PoE1.
For PoE1, the Chinese players have their own "Chinese Client" and do not appear in the Steam numbers, but PoE2 does not have the "Chinese Client" atm and Chinese players use Steam to play the game.
So, a direct comparison when one game has players counted in, the other hasn't, shouldn't be used to form a claim.

EDIT: Ah, and it's extremely dishonest to compare "avg" anyway. Use percentage.

Another silly post that didn't need to be made if the game was so great.

Mandatory reminder while we're at it that it could be a lot better, and that blocking people out of having fun and taking away their toys everytime they are enjoying themselves will make them leave and potentially never come back.

Give us more loot.
Give us more movement speed.
Stop nerfing everything.
Give us more content.
Reduce the tedium as much as possible, as fast as possible.

It's a video game, we play it for fun. We like poe, but if it's not fun anymore we will leave.
Stop breaking our toys.

"

JakkerONAIR#4902 เขียน:

Even in the link you shared, PoE1 had in August 2024 over 75k avg players. There is a reason why "Settlers of Kalguur" is considered the most successful league.
And PoE1 was close before April 2023 with 68k.

Furthermore, it's a dishonest point anyway. PoE1 constantly grew over the years from league to league; good retention, while PoE2 is tanking since launch.

On top, the Steam numbers for PoE2 are inflated and not really comparable to PoE1.
For PoE1, the Chinese players have their own "Chinese Client" and do not appear in the Steam numbers, but PoE2 does not have the "Chinese Client" atm and Chinese players use Steam atm to play the game.
So, a direct comparison when one game has players counted in, the other hasn't, shouldn't be used to form a claim.

EDIT: Ah, and it's extremely dishonest to compare "avg" anyway. Use percentage.

I just wanna say even if i disagree with you (as you with me) I really do enjoy the back and fourths we have been having. its been civil, kind, cordial, and just overall fun to have even though we fundamentally disagree :)


You would be correct. I seemed to have missed august 24th when going over it and that I will retract in my OP and edit.

Its not a dishonest point. POE 1 had 10 years to garner this kind of following and if you look at the numbers for lets say the first year are no where close to the numbers that even 3 months of POE 2 has put up.

The steam numbers are all we really have. We can't put to data that we cannot view (unless you have a link I can look over) to make any claim. As previously, we both agree that speculating is not good and we can only go by the data. The numbers are the numbers mate.

What my general point is, if you look at POE 1 in the beginner the numbers were so dismal that under the current paradigm on this forum/reddit/discord there is zero grace given to POE 2 that was given to POE 1. IT literally took POE 1 almost 10 years to get average players remotely close to POE 2. Its not a bash at POE 1 its more about giving context and trying to understand better.

Also, peak daily users is not a decent measurement overall when looking at long term data. At least, in my eyes it would be better to see what average players look like cause they would be the key to the games success. You can have 2.5 million people play 1 game for 1 day and it means nothing if you can't keep .5% playing long term.

"

Hyperspacing#5593 เขียน:

Its not a dishonest point. POE 1 had 10 years to garner this kind of following and if you look at the numbers for lets say the first year are no where close to the numbers that even 3 months of POE 2 has put up.

I mean, it kinda isn't a good point.

Yes, it took PoE1 10 years to get the 75k avg on Steam, but at least the game was growing, and THAT is extremely rare in the entire industry, while PoE2 only needed 5 months to drop from huge numbers down into PoE1 territory.
That's why I said, it's not really helpful to take the "average" of players for a comparison. Look at the retention percentage-wise. There, PoE2 is in a really bad state at the moment, no matter what the reason is.

PoE2 had in Dec 304k on avg and now, with this league, only 90k on avg in April. That's only 30% of players who came back for the new league...

"

The steam numbers are all we really have. We can't put to data that we cannot view (unless you have a link I can look over) to make any claim. As previously, we both agree that speculating is not good and we can only go by the data. The numbers are the numbers mate.

Numbers are not just numbers.
We know, PoE1 Steam numbers don't include Chinese players, while the PoE2 Steam numbers do. So, you compare two datasets with different "demographics", while not knowing the actual numbers (PoE2 Steam without Chinese) to make an accurate comparison, thus invalid.

"

What my general point is, if you look at POE 1 in the beginner the numbers were so dismal that under the current paradigm on this forum/reddit/discord there is zero grace given to POE 2 that was given to POE 1. IT literally took POE 1 almost 10 years to get average players remotely close to POE 2. Its not a bash at POE 1 its more about giving context and trying to understand better.

Why would ppl give PoE2 some "grace period"? GGG bait and switched after 4 years and decided to make PoE2 its own game, and instead of actually using PoE1 as a blueprint for success, they try to ignore it as hard as possible - taking only a few things from PoE1 and even making them worse.
It's not like GGG is a new studio which doesn't have over 10 years of collected data and feedback to know what their community wants. They know, and they do something else.

"

Also, peak daily users is not a decent measurement overall when looking at long term data. At least, in my eyes it would be better to see what average players look like cause they would be the key to the games success. You can have 2.5 million people play 1 game for 1 day and it means nothing if you can't keep .5% playing long term.

And that's why ppl call PoE2 0.2 a failure; it lost in 4 weeks as many ppl as PoE2 0.1 in 3 months.

When you quote like that its hard for me to follow up with a quoted posts as I don't wanna sit there and bounce back and fourth between pages lol

The game was not growing for close to 2 years after released and the player base was not stable at all. It may have grown in the sense of peak player but I just disagree with you that using peak player is a good metric for long term growth. Which you are 100% allowed to disagree but at that point we are just gonna keep crossing into gray areas and we can get lost in the weeds.

Even if we use the percentage, like you stated, POE 1 lost close to 70% of its player base as well. From OCt 2013 to Feb 2014 they went from 19k to less than 7k.

It's not invalid as we cannot determine what percentage of players are using the China servers so I can't make an assessment but will agree that these could skew the numbers heavily as it could be a large number. THe problem is we just don't know the numbers. If you have some data on that I'd love to see it so I can alter my stance or review them to refine my stance. Ether or, I can't speculate on what X percent are using Chinese servers.

I can see them not getting a grace period if they literally just made a copy/paste version of POE 1 but they def do as they are trying to do something else. I can agree with you that the bait and switch could leave players disgruntled and that would be fair. However, For close to 2 years before EA they pretty much made it pretty clear that POE 2 took its own life and was headed to being a stand alone game. I don't wanna get lost in the weeds on that section so Ill agree with you for the sake of argumentation. Even though, I fundamentally disagree that they don't deserve a grace period as was given to POE 1

"

Hyperspacing#5593 เขียน:

if you look at POE 1 in the beginner the numbers were so dismal that under the current paradigm on this forum/reddit/discord there is zero grace given to POE 2 that was given to POE 1. IT literally took POE 1 almost 10 years to get average players remotely close to POE 2. Its not a bash at POE 1 its more about giving context and trying to understand better.

Man seriously stop spamming the forum with your flawed analysis, just go play the game, that's the only metric that will matter on the long run. You would look a bit less desperate as well imho.

That said, I'll still bring some perspective to that quote, as this one, at least, seems new to me. You talk about context, while ignoring it yourself.
Of course PoE1 had more time, of course PoE2 has to live with more expectations. It shouldn't be anything less than what it gets...
PoE1 started in a garage. Group of friends learning. No money. No market presence. Different era. You need time to grow that, because that's what it is. A new business in the making, there is no magic nor shortcut.

PoE2 has 0 right to be spared to the same level. PoE2 started with means on a whole different level. Supporters, technology, investors, audience, market visibility, network, employment attraction, knowledge, structure size, tools etc.
PoE2 is built on a 10+ years legacy and experience. It comes with responsabilities, like it or not.
Regardless of the business, you cannot lever brand influence, and then say "oopsy, my bad, I'm noob". Using the power of a brand comes with the necessity to learn how to deal with backfire.

"

rob_korn#1745 เขียน:

That said, I'll still bring some perspective to that quote, as this one, at least, seems new to me. You talk about context, while ignoring it yourself.
Of course PoE1 had more time, of course PoE2 has to live with more expectations. It shouldn't be anything less than what it gets...
PoE1 started in a garage. Group of friends learning. No money. No market presence. Different era. You need time to grow that, because that's what it is. A new business in the making, there is no magic nor shortcut.

PoE2 has 0 right to be spared to the same level. PoE2 started with means on a whole different level. Supporters, technology, investors, audience, market visibility, network, employment attraction, knowledge, structure size, tools etc.
PoE2 is built on a 10+ years legacy and experience. It comes with responsabilities, like it or not.
Regardless of the business, you cannot lever brand influence, and then say "oopsy, my bad, I'm noob". Using the power of a brand comes with the necessity to learn how to deal with backfire.

This.

I thought to write something like you did, but at some point it's kinda tiring.

Even thinking to compare PoE1 2013 with PoE2 now - to make a point... idk man.