Scouring orbs

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zepberonha#9748 เขียน:

I never said its 100% deterministic. But its more than poe1.

thats simply wrong and its not even close

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Pl4t1numX#4325 เขียน:

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zepberonha#9748 เขียน:

I never said its 100% deterministic. But its more than poe1.

thats simply wrong and its not even close

To elaborate on this, when people say "deterministic" in PoE, it means something like, "I can start with this base item, and know that eventually that base item will become the item I want". There are very few hard failure points on PoE1 crafting. There are some steps that you risk needing to scour to start over, but you will still eventually turn that item into the thing you want given enough currency.

In PoE2 however, even though the mod pool is less diluted and it's technically easier to hit the mod you want with an exalt slam, if you don't hit it there's a lot fewer ways to recover the item. So for the majority of players who can't afford a lot of expensive omens, crafting an item can and often does fail to a point that the best option is just a new base. Of course 0.3 made PoE2 crafting way better and there is more determinism built in now, but it's prohibitively exorcist in 2 for the majority of players. Since there's no way to go back to white or even blue items, if something goes horribly wrong, the best I could do is annul down to 0 mods which is often significantly more expensive than a new base (barring exceptional etc).


Not hating on 2 here, but I do agree 1 is more deterministic on the way players tend to mean it.

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KaosuRyoko#1633 เขียน:

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Pl4t1numX#4325 เขียน:

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zepberonha#9748 เขียน:

I never said its 100% deterministic. But its more than poe1.

thats simply wrong and its not even close

To elaborate on this, when people say "deterministic" in PoE, it means something like, "I can start with this base item, and know that eventually that base item will become the item I want". There are very few hard failure points on PoE1 crafting. There are some steps that you risk needing to scour to start over, but you will still eventually turn that item into the thing you want given enough currency.

In PoE2 however, even though the mod pool is less diluted and it's technically easier to hit the mod you want with an exalt slam, if you don't hit it there's a lot fewer ways to recover the item. So for the majority of players who can't afford a lot of expensive omens, crafting an item can and often does fail to a point that the best option is just a new base. Of course 0.3 made PoE2 crafting way better and there is more determinism built in now, but it's prohibitively exorcist in 2 for the majority of players. Since there's no way to go back to white or even blue items, if something goes horribly wrong, the best I could do is annul down to 0 mods which is often significantly more expensive than a new base (barring exceptional etc).


Not hating on 2 here, but I do agree 1 is more deterministic on the way players tend to mean it.

Wrong definition


Lets give some examples


Case 1

You go to a cassino and to play a slot machine. You can sit in there and play thousands of times if you want, but the result is random.


Case 2

You go to a poker tournment. Yes you need some luck, but if you are good you end up in a prize spot 40% of the time. But if you lose you need to start another tournment.


Poe correlation

Slot machine game = poe1 craft, you can sit there and pull the lever thousands of times, poe2 is the poker game, where with one attempt you at least get a prize, and sometimes you win. Poe2 is the more deterministic. Sitting on the same base and using a slot machine 2 thousands times does not make it deterministic crafting.


The problem about poe1 crafting

Its focused in trying something thousands of times. Scouring orbs, imprints and alteration orbs are part of the problem. To craft something you need to sit there and play the slot machine all day.

This makes bases almost irrelevant, because if you have a really good base you can just go back and start over with the same base. This crafting system creates a problem. If you release a good base in the game, like symplex, you NEED to make it fucn rare, because of the crafting system with infinite attempts. So, if you get a symplex, you will craft it to perfection. There is not mid tier symplex. That makes the cheapest symplex cost hundreds of divines, which means 99% of the players wont have access to it.

Now, in poe2, you cant go back as freely as poe1, you usually get a base, go to the end with really good chances of hittin the jackpot, and if you dont hit it, you end up with a good mid tier item to sell on the market at discounted prices. With this crafting system, good bases dont need to be soooo rare, and to reach the perfect craft you need to use lots of bases, not lots of currency on the same base. This means a lot of mid tier itens on fucn good bases will be thrown to the market, where less hardcore players will have access to them.


Thats why poe2 crafting will wreck poe1 crafting. Its more fun, less tedious, and makes the economy flows.

And by the way, when you are crafting in poe2, exalt slam isnt the way to go most of the time, you have cleaver ways to do it better than that

POE2 way is better. White items actually mean something.

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zepberonha#9748 เขียน:

Wrong definition

You never provided your definition. It's obviously a colloquial use of the word since it doesn't fit the dictionary definitions nearly the way players use it.


I don't understand your analogy at all either. Poker sounds a lot more like 1, where if you're good and know what you're doing the majority of the time you get the item you want, and 2 feels more like the slots.


Also just personal preference. I hate the concept of picking up tons of bases to craft on. It's exhausting and tedious. It feels like identifying items with extra steps. That feels way more like a slot machine to me where 99% of the time you just end up with an item you throw back on the ground after two steps. I infinitely prefer 1 crafting, being able to find an awesome base, and know I can turn that base into the item I want. Tbh, if they lean more into exceptional bases style that makes those bases matter waaaay more to me than in 2. 30 qual drops don't really matter of they're basically bricked after two slams and can't really be fixed.

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KaosuRyoko#1633 เขียน:

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zepberonha#9748 เขียน:

Wrong definition

You never provided your definition. It's obviously a colloquial use of the word since it doesn't fit the dictionary definitions nearly the way players use it.


I don't understand your analogy at all either. Poker sounds a lot more like 1, where if you're good and know what you're doing the majority of the time you get the item you want, and 2 feels more like the slots.


Also just personal preference. I hate the concept of picking up tons of bases to craft on. It's exhausting and tedious. It feels like identifying items with extra steps. That feels way more like a slot machine to me where 99% of the time you just end up with an item you throw back on the ground after two steps. I infinitely prefer 1 crafting, being able to find an awesome base, and know I can turn that base into the item I want. Tbh, if they lean more into exceptional bases style that makes those bases matter waaaay more to me than in 2. 30 qual drops don't really matter of they're basically bricked after two slams and can't really be fixed.

In a slot machine you also know what you need to do, you just sit there and decide what game you want to play. Then you choose alteration orb game and hit the lever 300 times. Next step feels the same and if you make it wrong, go back and do it hundreds of times again.

In a poker game you play it 1 time and usually get something, and if you wamt to try again you need another tournment.

If you dont get it, there is nothing i can do.


About bricking itens, it looks like you are trying to do poe1 craft in poe2. If you are exalt slamming as your main crafting you are doing it wrong. And by the way, try to sell the imperfect itens. In poe1 you try 1k times to get something, poe2 you try 10, and the other 9 attempts produce things to sell. Its better.

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zepberonha#9748 เขียน:

In a slot machine you also know what you need to do, you just sit there and decide what game you want to play. Then you choose alteration orb game and hit the lever 300 times. Next step feels the same and if you make it wrong, go back and do it hundreds of times again.

In a poker game you play it 1 time and usually get something, and if you wamt to try again you need another tournment.

If you dont get it, there is nothing i can do.


About bricking itens, it looks like you are trying to do poe1 craft in poe2. If you are exalt slamming as your main crafting you are doing it wrong. And by the way, try to sell the imperfect itens. In poe1 you try 1k times to get something, poe2 you try 10, and the other 9 attempts produce things to sell. Its better.

OK got your analogy better, just personal preference then. I prefer the PoE1 style of pulling the lever until you hit for each step. I usually craft multiple +2 RF amulets and similar every PoE1 league as a hideout warrior. I'm aware of the advanced crafting strats and how to sell partial successes in both games.

The bricking items point is interesting. The crafting loop in 2 for average players seems to boil down to perfect trans/aug until you get something good, everything not good gets thrown back on the ground. Do you disagree? That loop is what I find way more tedious that alt/aug spam in 1 personally. I think Id honestly really enjoy a game where only crafting materials and exceptional bases were loot and other bases were just loot from a vendor.

Of course, wealthy players can use a combination of all the expensive omens to deterministic craft in 2 as well though. Doesn't the direction crafting has already gone in 2 also push towards making bases less relevant?

I have no idea why people are saying scouring orbs don't belong in the game. GGG obviously disagrees because they are in the game. Agreed drop rates are abysmal. I've gotten 3 divs drop in the last week, in non-juiced maps T11 or lower, haven't gotten a single scouring orb the entire league.