[3.2] The Snowblind Cospri CoC Assassin - Projectile based CoC

I recently re-rolled into this build and i'm having trouble with bosses, both survavility and damage seem too low depending on the mods. what can i change in my build?

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reezagent เขียน:

I recently re-rolled into this build and i'm having trouble with bosses, both survavility and damage seem too low depending on the mods. what can i change in my build?

With a quick glance, life leech gem in Cospri's instead of Hypo, drop the two elemental damage nodes near Shadow start and pick up the jewel socket under martial experience for an abyss jewel (they're OP), recolor Starkonja and add increased duration, better life flasks (one seething, the other surgeon), and a defensive flask instead of the silver one.

Hi all!

Pretty interesting build. Never played something like this before, but then again, I am relatively 'new' to Path of Exile compared to most of you.

So my gripe with the build currently is that I cannot crit reliably with cyclone. I'm wondering how he got his crit chance so high as to almost guarantee crits all the time. If someone could have a look at my character (named 'neverTrust_a_Rogue') and tell me how it's done, that would be greatly appreciated.

(I know I'm still missing cruel/merciless ascendancy, and I'll get to those now that I switched over to CoC Cyclone - however, there's not enough crit chance gained from just ascendancies to make up the difference between his and my character. I can see the 100% more Crit Chance against enemies on full life from 'Ambush' coming in handy when clearing trash, but how do you sustainably crit against bosses?)

TL:DR - Where is the bulk of his crit chance coming from, and how can I improve mine?

Kind regards!

"

BiceNum เขียน:

Hi all!
So my gripe with the build currently is that I cannot crit reliably with cyclone. I'm wondering how he got his crit chance so high as to almost guarantee crits all the time. If someone could have a look at my character (named 'neverTrust_a_Rogue') and tell me how it's done, that would be greatly appreciated.

TL:DR - Where is the bulk of his crit chance coming from, and how can I improve mine?

Kind regards!

first off are you basing your crit chance off of the "default atack" crit chance or one of your fb/fp proc spells?
-because the default attack tooltip will be inherently low to begin with. the two spells paired with cyclone should be your highest critchance tooltips in hideout while buffed, and even that will be noticeably lower than what the creator mentioned in his offensive stats. (the 77.90% is probably derived from his pathofbuilder loadout which will take into account his 7 power charges[each one buffs your critchance significantly (ie.7 charges) which is huge].
Now... if you factor in your diamond flask it should take it up roughly another **hidden** ~20% (aka 95%ish)
-Your gear pretty much followed the aforementioned guide to the letter(except jewels/opal ring)
I might suggest looking for a jewel/abyssal jewel that has global critchance tied into it if you are still feeling the need for additional %

"

(I know I'm still missing cruel/merciless ascendancy, and I'll get to those now that I switched over to CoC Cyclone - however, there's not enough crit chance gained from just ascendancies to make up the difference between his and my character. I can see the 100% more Crit Chance against enemies on full life from 'Ambush' coming in handy when clearing trash, but how do you sustainably crit against bosses?)

the Final 2 ascendencies will play a decent factor in supporting your overall power charge proc as well as critchance total (id advise getting those sooner than later)
-Be sure to spam that diamond flask whenever you engage with a pack of mobs or boss to boost your chances of gaining power charges early on in the fights.

(ive been noticing alot of people in this thread having concerns/issues with power charge generation/maintaining and surprised to hear this... Having taken out power charge on critical strike support with shield charge, i still see no drop off on max charges very fast/easily. Especially considering the added bonus Inya's Epiphany[boots] gives with a chance to gain all power charges).
-for those having trouble i might suggest using orb of storms/power charge on critical strike combo for boss encounters if still struggling, but i dont know where you could substitute that since i havent really had a need to look.
***You're also missing 2 pretty big nodes just below the top Power charge nodes (spell critical strike chance & Annihilation)***

TO SUMMARIZE:
My own crit chance on freezing pulse(linked in chest) is currently 45.66% in hideout. Gets up to 84.94% with max power charges in maps, and is a hidden 97.73% in pathofbuilder when using a diamond flask.
-Theres another bump in crit chance to chilled enemies when put into PoB config taking me up to 99.17%

the creator is taking his stats from PoB directly and i can confirm my own crit stats are right on par with his with slight variations of gear.

As far as gear goes, you're almost set up completely from what i see.
(sorry for the novel)

First of all: I really like that build and its very fun to play. Great work.
I'm lvl 85 and leveling speed is good for me. I have nearly 0 problems with survivability(tested 82 mobLevel so far).

But I'm a Path of Building noob. How can I calculate my DPS? I played a wander with barrage. That's kinda easy, but I have no clue how to calculate the DPS of a trigger-setup?

Can someone give me a tiny noob-manual for this?

"

ASiC4 เขียน:

first off are you basing your crit chance off of the "default atack" crit chance or one of your fb/fp proc spells?
-because the default attack tooltip will be inherently low to begin with. the two spells paired with cyclone should be your highest critchance tooltips in hideout while buffed, and even that will be noticeably lower than what the creator mentioned in his offensive stats. (the 77.90% is probably derived from his pathofbuilder loadout which will take into account his 7 power charges[each one buffs your critchance significantly (ie.7 charges) which is huge].
Now... if you factor in your diamond flask it should take it up roughly another **hidden** ~20% (aka 95%ish)
-Your gear pretty much followed the aforementioned guide to the letter(except jewels/opal ring)
I might suggest looking for a jewel/abyssal jewel that has global critchance tied into it if you are still feeling the need for additional %

Wow, so first of all: thank you for this elaborate response. I was checking the default in-game tooltip for Cyclone's critical strike chance which, with power charges, went up to roughly 46-50% I believe (from the top of my head) - I suppose PathofBuilding is more accurate, but using it is a bit tricky for me (especially checking DPS with this build feels like some higher mathematical stuff). I just checked PoB and it shows my Cyclone has a 73.79% crit chance with power charges against chilled enemies, add the diamond flask and that would take me up to roughly 93% chance to crit. We always chill enemies because of 'The Pandemonius' (chill on hit), correct? So then I should only have to worry about keeping those power charges up?

Why is the crit chance of fb/fp so important, because they can proc a subsequent trigger of CoC? The way I thought of it is that Cyclone crit chance is the most important, for if I don't crit with cyclone, nothing happens - i.e. I will simply be spinning on top of my opponent doing absolutely nothing in terms of damage. This also brings me to my next point which is the (tooltip) DPS of Cyclone: the OP of this thread wrote "DPS from Cyclone hits: 46.4k" - where is this coming from? My in-game tooltip is more like 4-5k. Is this another such PathofBuilding/In-game discrepancy? It certainly feels like it's more around the 4-5k mark for, as said previously, if I fail to crit, literally nothing happens.

I am indeed still missing some jewels (will be working on that)! I was wondering what kind of Abyssal Jewels would benefit this build, I see that you opted for some flat life & flat added cold, mostly? I'll consider going for some additional crit chance on these too, if need be (but having taken a closer look at some crit calculations as further discussed below, I don't think that will be necessary).

"

the Final 2 ascendencies will play a decent factor in supporting your overall power charge proc as well as critchance total (id advise getting those sooner than later)
-Be sure to spam that diamond flask whenever you engage with a pack of mobs or boss to boost your chances of gaining power charges early on in the fights.

(ive been noticing alot of people in this thread having concerns/issues with power charge generation/maintaining and surprised to hear this... Having taken out power charge on critical strike support with shield charge, i still see no drop off on max charges very fast/easily. Especially considering the added bonus Inya's Epiphany[boots] gives with a chance to gain all power charges).
-for those having trouble i might suggest using orb of storms/power charge on critical strike combo for boss encounters if still struggling, but i dont know where you could substitute that since i havent really had a need to look.
***You're also missing 2 pretty big nodes just below the top Power charge nodes (spell critical strike chance & Annihilation)***

TO SUMMARIZE:
My own crit chance on freezing pulse(linked in chest) is currently 45.66% in hideout. Gets up to 84.94% with max power charges in maps, and is a hidden 97.73% in pathofbuilder when using a diamond flask.
-Theres another bump in crit chance to chilled enemies when put into PoB config taking me up to 99.17%

the creator is taking his stats from PoB directly and i can confirm my own crit stats are right on par with his with slight variations of gear.

As far as gear goes, you're almost set up completely from what i see.
(sorry for the novel)

I greatly appreciate some of the tips you've given here. A few questions though (maybe very basic one; I'm new to CoC in particular):

1) How are those two pretty big nodes just below the top power charge nodes (spell critical strike chance & Annihilation) supposed to help me out? I mean sure, they will help me crit my fb/fp, but they will not affect the crit chance of Cyclone, correct? So this will only be of relevance if my aforementioned hypothesis: 'the possibility of a critical fb/fp hit triggering an additional CoC' is right, right? But still, I'll need to crit with Cyclone/Shield charge first to trigger anything at all. Is this how it works, or is my reasoning flawed?

2) My freezing pulse (linked in chest) rests at 38.31% without power charges/chill/diamond flask according to PoB. Adding power charges takes it up to 75.73%. Adding chill takes it up to 81.67%. Adding flask effect takes it up to 96.64%. I suppose the differences in crit chance between your and my freezing pulse can be explained by me not having those two aforementioned nodes that affect spell critical yet, and the fact that I'm not completely done gearing (opal ring, for instance)?

3) The Chill effect used in the calculation under point #2 coming from Cospri's Malice: '60% increased critical strike chance against chilled enemies' is global right? So this will affect the freezing pulse in my chest too and is not limited to just the fb/fp setup in the Cospri's itself, correct?


Sorry for the wall of text, and thanks a bunch in advance! <3

BiceNum

"

We always chill enemies because of 'The Pandemonius' (chill on hit), correct? So then I should only have to worry about keeping those power charges up?

yes we chill on hit thanks to pandemonius, and a yes/no to the power charges (will be explained further down)

"

The way I thought of it is that Cyclone crit chance is the most important, for if I don't crit with cyclone, nothing happens - i.e. I will simply be spinning on top of my opponent doing absolutely nothing in terms of damage.

Very good point.
-If you were to look at cyclone's crit chance with no configuration in PoB you would see that it is rather low (only 34.93% on creator's lvl 96 assassin).
NOW: take into account multiple things
1.)Will the enemy be chilled if we are hit, yes(5% increase = 39.37%)
2.)"Is our crit chance lucky" Yes, always use diamond flask at beginning of an encounter (effective dps = 63.24%)
3.)Important Part that is almost always overlooked. The Ambush assassin node in our ascendency: "100% more critical strike chance against enemies that are on FULL LIFE"
-Plug that into the config and it takes the crit chance up to 95.48% crit chance for cyclone.
-Power charges add another ~5% = 99.__% answering question from earlier

"

This also brings me to my next point which is the (tooltip) DPS of Cyclone: the OP of this thread wrote "DPS from Cyclone hits: 46.4k" - where is this coming from? My in-game tooltip is more like 4-5k. Is this another such PathofBuilding/In-game discrepancy? It certainly feels like it's more around the 4-5k mark

This one is a bit trickier as i am also having trouble figuring out his config for the calculations, but to my best guess is:
1.)Power charges are taken into account
2.)Frenzy charges are taken into account
3.)Diamond flask and Wise oak flask are taken into account
b]4.)Chill is taken into account[/b]
-Biggest increase here is thanks to hypothermia's "Supported Skills deal (20-39)% more Damage with Hits and Ailments against Chilled Enemies"
With those boxes checkmarked i have his cyclone dps at 48,968.1 total dps (only a quick glance at it since cyclone dps isnt my main concern)

"

How are those two pretty big nodes just below the top power charge nodes (spell critical strike chance & Annihilation) supposed to help me out?
Cospri's Malice: '60% increased critical strike chance against chilled enemies' is global right? So this will affect the freezing pulse in my chest too and is not limited to just the fb/fp setup in the Cospri's itself, correct?

hopefully with all the other answers stated this has helped answer some questions.

Next poster corrected me on a few things i glossed over when trying to figure out/explain the stats and percentages, thanks.

Hello everyone. There are some misconceptions going on here which i would like to point out.

"

We always chill enemies because of 'The Pandemonius' (chill on hit), correct? So then I should only have to worry about keeping those power charges up?

yes we chill on hit thanks to pandemonius, and a yes/no to the power charges (will be explained further down)

Wrong. The Pandimonius only chills when you are being hit. As it say "When hit" not "On hit" as it does with the blind effect.

But all cold damage does chill so you will do that with only cospri's damage as it has only cold damage so your cyclone always chill.

"

Why is the crit chance of fb/fp so important, because they can proc a subsequent trigger of CoC?

Correct, high critchance for fb/fp(cold spells) will trigger subsequent fb/fp on cospri doubling your output.

Wrong. If you read on Cospri you will see this text: Trigger a Socketed Cold Spell on Melee Critical Strike.
So your spells from the 6L cannot proc Cospri spells.
Also same goes in the Cast on Crit link it say: Supported Attacks will Trigger a Supported Spell when you Crit an Enemy.
Spells does not proc a Cast on Crit supported spell.

The build only proc spells on cyclone critical hits. Which means that if you do not crit with the cyclone it will not cast any spells = "Dead spin"

And also from what ive read here a lot of people misunderstand the ascendancy aswell how we build power charges. They come from Non-crits as the ascencancy say: 10% chance to gain a Power Charge on non-Critical Strike.
That does include your attacks with cyclone and all your spell hits. So your spells that does not roll a crit hit have a chance to refresh or add a power charge which is helpful even if you crit very often with cyclone.

So to sustain your power charges is very easy due to the amount of spells we cast.

I just wanted to drop in a few corrections on some of the question and answers in this thread.

Thanks a bunch ASiC4 and carnagee - this has been my most fruitful forum exchange yet.

I was indeed going to ask ASiC4 after that last explanation of how continuous crits with spells and cyclone lead to a kind of vicious cycle of CoC triggers (considering Cospri's requires melee crits to trigger, and attacks can only trigger spells with CoC). However, carnagee has already clarified this in his 'revision' post.

Once again, I thank the both of you!

"

ASiC4 เขียน:

My own crit chance on freezing pulse(linked in chest) is currently 45.66% in hideout. Gets up to 84.94% with max power charges in maps, and is a hidden 97.73% in pathofbuilder when using a diamond flask. There's another bump in crit chance to chilled enemies when put into PoB config taking me up to 99.17%

The creator is taking his stats from PoB directly and i can confirm my own crit stats are right on par with his with slight variations of gear.

I got same build with almost everything stacked, and can confirm that this values are real. I double checked and Path of Building showing the same results that I have in game. So sharing a little bit of my own.
With all power charges (7 + 3 + 3) and Diamond flask active I got:
- Cyclone 31720 DPS (50201 DPS for Chilled enemies). Crits 93.99% and Attacks 4.75 per second.
- 6L Frostbolt 77812 DPS (121607 for Chilled enemies). Crits 96.65%
- 6L Freezing Pulse 68067 DPS (105691 DPS for Chilled enemies). Crits 99.17%
- Cospri Frostbolt 82326 DPS (131765 DPS for Chilled enemies). Crits 80.02%
- Cospri Freezing Pulse 85878 DPS (136982 DPS for Chilled enemies). Crits 86.46%

What I actually don't quite understand is why my damage on 6L and Cospri are differs a lot, and why Cospri has more damage than 6L. The crit chance seems to vary as well, but since we have 6L Crit Chance support gem, it's kinda logical for 6L skills.

Another question, is what ideal Jewel setup would be. From my perspective I am looking for:
1. Cold Damage
2. Projectile Damage
3. Attack Speed with Swords
4. Multiplier with Elemental skills
5. Global Crit Chance

I am looking for Global Crit Chance, to boost Cyclone as well as FB/FP gems, but found couple of jewels that has "Crit Chance for Spells" -> this won't help to proc crits from Cyclone, but increases DPS on FP/FB. And I am concerned about what is more valuable for this build (Having higher Attack Speed for Cyclone or FB/FP damage). Didn't found the correct way to count it even via Path of Building.

Another concern is what boots enchantment is best for this build. I currently have 120% Increased Crit Chance if you haven't crit recently -> it helps to do a first initial crit for power charges, and help on mapping while you're moving from pack to pack (basically 4 seconds). But I am thinking about getting +16% attack speed, or 10% penetration. Worried that penetration won't work as expected as it counts only if you haven't killed recently, so it won't help on maps, and doubt on boses, since there are some minions as well.

For anyone interested, here's my character:
https://www.pathofexile.com/account/view-profile/zlDez/characters

"

Crovaxx เขียน:

Cyclone hits per second = 9.28 (4.64 * 2)
Crit chance = 95.13% (77.93% without diamond flask)

DPS from Cyclone hits: 46.4k

6l Frostbolt: 130356 average hit damage. (260.7k dps)
6l Freezing Pulse: 112977 average hit damage. (226k dps)
Cospri Frostbolt: 82466 average hit damage. (329.9k dps (236.8k with Life Leech gem))
Cospri Freezing Pulse: 74285 average hit damage. (297.1k dps (213.3k with Life Leech gem))

Blade Flurry = 5 procs per second. (62.3% of max procs)
Cyclone = 8.83 procs per second. (Cospri max rate = 8 procs per sec)

This is what I don't really understand. I posted my values above, and I actually don't believe I got better damage that author of this build. So:
1. Why does he multiply Cyclone Attack speed by 2? (4.64 is his attack speed)
2. I suggest that average damage for all skills counted as "Damage on Chilled enemies" because I can't explain it in any other way.
3. Why does he multiply Average hit damage by 2 again to get DPS?

Can someone explain?