(3.14) Toxic Rain + Caustic Arrow | 5-10m Sirus DPS | Fast + Durable | 50c Budget/SSF Uber Elder

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ovidiumt เขียน:

Noob question here: how do you block attack modifiers and how does that help?

I imagine you talk about the bow crafting section.

1. You need the recipe "cannot roll attack modifiers", it's from one of the prophecys from the pale court questline, plaguemaw 5, you can just find / buy this prophecy as a lot of newer league mechanics drop prophecies as rewards and its very common.

2. You need a bow with 2 suffixes. By crafting "cannot roll attack modifiers" you ensure that all suffixes are taken by now. When you exalt slam or use leo rank 3 research bench, it will add a property to your bow that cannot be an attack mod or a suffix (since all suffixes are taken), and the only prefix that isn't attack mod (on a no influence bow) is +1 to socketed gems which is our target craft.

So ill probably start with this build. Have played it before was good and fun. I hope with new craft options we will be able to craft our bow at ease

Looks like most of the first post is from 3.9. The only 3.10 stuff doesn't have any clusters. Is there updated info from the author somewhere in the 220+ pages of this thread?

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drawmonster เขียน:

Looks like most of the first post is from 3.9. The only 3.10 stuff doesn't have any clusters. Is there updated info from the author somewhere in the 220+ pages of this thread?

Hey, I kinda took a break last league since it felt like GGG shit the bed. I mentioned it somewhere, probably a few dozen pages back, but clusters didn't really change anything to the build. The tree is already insanely efficient. I can try and look at what prices are for specific jewel combinations, but again, you're going to need perfect rolled jewels to consider trimming an entire branch off the tree.

Aside from the cluster jewels though, nothing changed in 3.10 for Toxic Rain.

I'll look at updating the guide for 3.11, but I'm imaging that we'll likely see zero changes that affect Toxic Rain, so the title might just get changed to 3.11. I'll take a peek at what exactly a perfect stack of clusters would yield tomorrow, and see if its worth moving the tree.

I'm thinking about going through the last 20 pages or so and answering questions, but I'm a little scared that they're going to be the same questions people have been asking for 150 pages — we'll see.

That's absurd, there's no question whatsoever that one or even two sets of cluster jewels will do the build a lot of good. And the good news is, we don't even need something very specific (played bv poison assasin for league start in Delirium, that was quite heavier in required notables)

For your typical cluster set you are looking at 1 8-point large chaos damage ilvl 75+, 2 4-or 5-point chaos dot multi medium jewels, and 2 small jewels (you got more leeway here regarding what to choose, life, ES, dodge, chaos res...)

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typicaldemon เขียน:

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drawmonster เขียน:

Looks like most of the first post is from 3.9. The only 3.10 stuff doesn't have any clusters. Is there updated info from the author somewhere in the 220+ pages of this thread?

Hey, I kinda took a break last league since it felt like GGG shit the bed. I mentioned it somewhere, probably a few dozen pages back, but clusters didn't really change anything to the build. The tree is already insanely efficient. I can try and look at what prices are for specific jewel combinations, but again, you're going to need perfect rolled jewels to consider trimming an entire branch off the tree.

Aside from the cluster jewels though, nothing changed in 3.10 for Toxic Rain.

I'll look at updating the guide for 3.11, but I'm imaging that we'll likely see zero changes that affect Toxic Rain, so the title might just get changed to 3.11. I'll take a peek at what exactly a perfect stack of clusters would yield tomorrow, and see if its worth moving the tree.

I'm thinking about going through the last 20 pages or so and answering questions, but I'm a little scared that they're going to be the same questions people have been asking for 150 pages — we'll see.

Thanks for the guide regardless. Really well done. I will say the last two builds I used, another Toxic Rain Trickster and an Ice Storm Ascendant, both depended on very specific cluster jewels exclusively. And the jewels typically cost a lot. The Ascendant required 4 x 10ex+ Large clusters and several Megalomaniacs. The other TR Trickster required a couple 5ex+ clusters and a 10ex+ Prismatic Eye.

And the other TR build was kind of a glass canon. Huge DPS but died way too often for my taste. But I like the fact that your build doesn’t depend on clusters. I’m gonna respec to your build and give it a try. Thanks.

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Rathke เขียน:

That's absurd, there's no question whatsoever that one or even two sets of cluster jewels will do the build a lot of good. And the good news is, we don't even need something very specific (played bv poison assasin for league start in Delirium, that was quite heavier in required notables)

For your typical cluster set you are looking at 1 8-point large chaos damage ilvl 75+, 2 4-or 5-point chaos dot multi medium jewels, and 2 small jewels (you got more leeway here regarding what to choose, life, ES, dodge, chaos res...)

Large

Your 8 point large cluster ilvl 75 is fundamental to get the chain going. Ilvl 75 means it can roll 2 jewel socket, which is mandatory. Thats a suffix, we got two choices here:
Alt spamming for two notables and then regal hoping for 2 jewel sockets, or chaos spam hoping for 3 notables (2 prefix 1 suffix) and two sockets.
Either way, you are looking for:
Prefix:
Wicked pall (chaos dmg and skill duration) or unwaveringly evil (stun res) should be first choice, touch of cruelty (hinder enemies) being a viable option too if you are looking to hit two with chaos spam
Suffix:
This is what may make rolling this jewel expensive. The easy option is unholy grace: chaos dmg and attack speed, great for us, but a much harder to roll choice is unspeakable gifts, granting you 10% chance to make mobs explode. Now I'm not sure how good that is for TR, and it's much, much harder to roll.
2 suffix will always be 2 jewels, has a really high weight, so it's not hard to roll tho

medium

For mediums you should use 4-5 point +5% chaos dot multi, here you are looking at hitting 2 notables (both prefixes) + 1 jewel socket (again, chaos spamming or alt+regaling)
There are more viable options, but also make it harder to get exactly what you want.
I haven't done the math (it probably depends on your gear too) whether or not it's better to aim for a lot of dot multi or inc chaos dmg with skill effect, but basically you got: brush with death and exposure therapy (10% dot multi) vs wicked pall (inc chaos dmg and skill duration) vs eternal suffering (5% dot multi and skill duration) for prefixes, and jewel socket as your suffix (there are no notables in suffixes, so just aim to get the jewel socket. You might get some stats/life as a 2nd suffix if you are chaos spamming but shouldn't be a priority)

small

Like I said, there is a lot of good options here, and the notable can even add some more dmg with life or ES jewels. In this case, imo your best bet is to chaos spam it to get some nice bonus res/stats/life.
Only extra advice, don't overlook the chaos res small jewel, it's a great way to cap chaos res for 2-3 points.

I’d be fine in using them as long as they aren’t stupidly expensive like the other builds I’ve played this league.

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drawmonster เขียน:

I’d be fine in using them as long as they aren’t stupidly expensive like the other builds I’ve played this league.

You shouldn't be buying them, this is not a herald build where you need an exact, hard to roll combo, even a "not-perfectly-rolled" jewel will do you a ton of good (I'd go so far as saying that, after your bow, it's the second most important thing to get). The good news is, it's a powerful tool, but its not mandatory, you can play without, save for it and craft when you got the money.

There's no saying how expensive they will be this league, but just buying a base (and you can also save here - grab a 9 point large, or a dot multi instead of chaos dot multi) and alt spamming or chaos spamming isn't overly expensive, in no way it's in the multi-ex realm (megalomaniac are a different story)

At this point, after the experience in 3.10,we shouldn't be discussing whether or not to use clusters, we should be talking about whether to use one or two clusters, and what is better in the mediums, chaos dot multi vs more skill duration, etc.

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drawmonster เขียน:

The other TR Trickster required a couple 5ex+ clusters and a 10ex+ Prismatic Eye.

Lol. People are so hellbent to get the double increased skill duration mediums that it drove the price into the sky.

You can use many alternatives that still provide crazy utility even if not "BIS for dps" and get a lot of value, I don't think I paid more than 100c for any of the mediums, definitely not 5ex. I even listed multiple times to multiple people which notables I think are worth going for.

The large cluster with "perfect" imo stats started around 3ex, I bought it when it dropped to 1ex. And no, it didn't include explody mod rather instead 30% chaos damage + 10% attack speed, because someone in this thread told me the explody mod is overrated for its price.

And watcher's eye with 22% dot multi can be used in ANY chaos damage build. It's never mandatory but it's always a dps increase. What kind of argument it is that 1 TR build used it and the other didn't. If you don't care about more damage then yeah, you don't have to use it. Same as you don't have to use helmet enchant which imo is even less impactful while driving the price of the item up.

Always consider your budget, for 1 guy league budget is 10ex for another is 100ex. If you're printing exalts, go for best of the best items. If you're casual, go for the items that provide 80% of the value for 10% the price.

Watcher's eye should be probably very low on the prio list because it's just a stat stick, not a build enabling item (contrary to builds that for example require watcher's eye to reach 100% ele conversion or 100% crit chance).

And yes, we checked with the author of the other thread that while wicked pall + eternal suffering "bis" combo medium was expensive, 1 of them with circling oblivion was fairly cheap while still providing decent chunk of increased skill duration. Basically any of the dot notables outside of dedicated ailment nodes can be used as a stopgap.

You can use list of notables from official page:
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2783927
Or you can use poedb.tw to find what can roll on which type of jewel (more reliable) and just use your logic. Exclude trash nodes that are useless to the build and pick whatever is cheapest after. As long as you understand the build and know for example that "gain unholy might on crit" is not a useful node for this spec, you'll be fine.

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Rathke เขียน:

There's no saying how expensive they will be this league, but just buying a base (and you can also save here - grab a 9 point large, or a dot multi instead of chaos dot multi) and alt spamming or chaos spamming isn't overly expensive, in no way it's in the multi-ex realm (megalomaniac are a different story)

I agree with you on a lot of your points, however I'm not sure if I'd like to lose a passive for picking a 9 node large. It is a transitionary option but I checked and you do lose a passive point on a 9.

Also megalomaniacs this season were more about being in the right time in the right place, live searching, or just taking one that has a maybe sub par but not worthless node. I bought 2 satisfactory ones this season, one for 1ex another for 60c, both with tempered arrowheads which is really good for this build, and then one with elusive and another with culling strike (got pissed off at dying at sub 10% sirus) and the last node was a weak damage node but not a "dead" one.

Imo 2-cluster setup can be fairly efficient especially on a build that traditionally struggles to get enough life from tree. I don't 100% agree with the other guide that doesn't use small clusters only rare jewels - yes, this is optimal for damage but sometimes you'd rather have more life and not get 1-shot if you don't have mad dodging skills (not everyone has).

Also while fettle was extremely overpriced in comparison to any other health node, this build can have great use of Sublime Sensation (8% life 10% es) and it's much cheaper. The one that gives life on hit or life regen every 5 seconds is also pretty decent again for just a portion of price of Fettle.

Personally I'd probably ditch anything around Scion area, feels like too much pathing and the duration nodes around it are sub par in comparison to clusters. Same with the witch area, if we anoint Corruption there's nothing efficient to go for in there.

But I agree on your major points:
- if ready made jewels are expensive, you can buy a base and craft them
- if you still want to buy them, just swap to a slightly less "meta" combo and it becomes much much cheaper

Very informative replies. This was my first league, and still trying to wrap my head around lots of stuff. There is SO much to this game. I've finally gotten mapping, the Atlas, and Sirius figured out. And I crafted my first good item. I'll definitely look into crafting my own clusters going forward.