[3.21] Vatinas' Spiders + HoP Guardian - CI, 70K armour, 1400 ES on block, millions of DPS

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BLS_suicid เขียน:

OMG,Thanks for the detailed answer .
and for the fact that they did not send me to read, and for the fact that they did not declare themselves "this is an obvious problem, blah blah blah"
I didn't understand because of the language barrier, but after you wrote down in more detail, I understood everything
you're cool

Sure, language barrier, and because of the language barrier you put in Impale, which isn't mentioned in the guide. I gave you a hint.

From the FAQ in the guide:

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and use HoP along with whatever support gems allow you to use HoP.

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gelion228 เขียน:

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anguyen เขียน:

Do you think a +2 skin of the loyal 4r 1g 1b would outperform +1 skin of the loyal 4r 2b? I dont think there will be a +2 4r 2b anytime soon

Imao the best way to boost ur dps is snipe +2 duration +1 all gems whith any colors, even 4 green 2 red will be nice upgrade.

its very easy to stack mana reserv, couse u have a lot of options: better rings with 24%, charisma in amulet, some clusters with 30% reduce determination's reservation, enchant on the helm, enlighten 4 lvl...

And even u get +2/+1 skin with 4 green, u can easyly pushe determination from 50% reserv to 0%, add hatred + generosity and 4 cold gems in ur 6-link. And this will be much better for ut dps, much much better.


Аnd if you find some close to 4 red 2 blue with difference in 1 socket, u don't have to worry at all, couse its ALWAYS better. mana multiplier is not a problem, if u have slots in the build to deal with it. charisma is the simplest example.

How does +2 duration outperform +1 socketed gems? I’m new so I’m not too familiar with the mechanics of this game.

It doesn't, he was saying +2Duration AND +1 socketed on the implicits

For levelling do you use the same gems for Dominating Blow as you would for HOP? Not quite clear from the guide unless I'm missing something?

What are good levelling uniques until you can equip the fang (save for ususl tabula, wanderlust and goldrim)?

Hey OP, AMAZING GUIDE! I'm loving this build so far. Quick question though, is the double Predator Support necessary or are there better alternatives on the 6l? I understand it on the weapon for spiders but just wanting to know if there is a better option.

Thanks in advanced if you're able to respond to this!

Hey, I like the guide - but too much buttons for me. So I decided to replace Predator support with something else because I use right mouse for molten shell and middle mouse for vaal-disziplin and have already too much buttons for me to use.

What else would be good for the blue socket? At the moment I use Minion Speed Support for the Chest and Minion Damage Support for the Dagger. What would be a good choice for the blue sockets if not using Predator?

Another question - I am sorry I am not happy with the golem, so any suggestion I can use instead (thinking about holy relic)? Frenzy support is not a must have, I am right? Or should I use frenzy in weapon or dagger in a blue socket for the predator?

But maybe I already changed too much.

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Dobarn เขียน:

It's very close as the HoP level out-strips the support gem levels by quite a way, but +1 all will slightly out-perform +2Dur as the boost to Empower will still mean +2 onto your HoP plus the additional +1 onto the other support gems.

For BLS_suicid, as mentioned that FAQ did have exactly your issue

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* You have the exact same support gems on HoP as I do, as the mana multiplier of the support gems changes the mana reservation.

but I found "don t write me" incredibly funny so I'll go into more details so you can swap Charisma back to Potency of Will if you want.

Ruthless support is 110% mana multiplier
You have socketted Impale instead at 130%

If following the standard guide, but don't have a 4R2B chest, these are the alterations I'd recommend

4R1B1G
Swap Minion Damage for Anomalous Impale (130 for 130 mana multiplier)

3R2B1G
Swap Ruthless Support for Vile Toxins (110 for 120 mana multiplier)
This one will require you to also boost the 2nd guilt ring to 24%, rather than a 24/22 combo

3R2B1G with vile toxins would require two 24/24 rings? Sorry it's a bit confusing.

3R1B2G would be feasible as well right? The selection of +2 socketed skin of the loyals is small.

Saying I got some good Stygian Vises that I can slam influence exalted orbs to use in conjunction with The Stempede, what would be better?

-Slaming Crusader's % Increased maximum Energy Shield
-Slaming Warlord's % increased Armour (and, if it fails, there is also a chance of Reduced Extra Damage from Critical Strikes)

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jimmy7777 เขียน:

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gelion228 เขียน:

Imao the best way to boost ur dps is snipe +2 duration +1 all gems whith any colors, even 4 green 2 red will be nice upgrade.

its very easy to stack mana reserv, couse u have a lot of options: better rings with 24%, charisma in amulet, some clusters with 30% reduce determination's reservation, enchant on the helm, enlighten 4 lvl...

And even u get +2/+1 skin with 4 green, u can easyly pushe determination from 50% reserv to 0%, add hatred + generosity and 4 cold gems in ur 6-link. And this will be much better for ut dps, much much better.


Аnd if you find some close to 4 red 2 blue with difference in 1 socket, u don't have to worry at all, couse its ALWAYS better. mana multiplier is not a problem, if u have slots in the build to deal with it. charisma is the simplest example.

Good message, but imo not 100% true. You still want at least 3 red colors for HoP, Empower (with +2 to all socketed gems on chest it's superior to any other support) and any red gem to scale phys. Other than that, yeah, it's your own choice.

Would be really interesting if someone experiments (at least in POB) with cold conversion. There was a crazy min-maxed DomBlow/HoP Harvest build on Youtube and it used all green Triad Grips (iirc he had 6 mln dps per sentinel in POB).

I just wanted to remind everyone of something: while, of course, you should seek to push the DPS if you want, remember that this is not what I intend for the guide. I want this build to be a good offence/defence hybrid, and giving up Shaper's Touch would make us lose a *lot* of defence (not to mention the 4G sockets which would be very constraining for us), and un-anointing Potency of Will would make us gain PoB DPS, sure, but would make us lose lots of quality of life, as well as effective DPS by requiring us to cast our buffs / spiders more often.

Once again, feel free to change the build however you like! ;) I'm just saying this to let you guys know that I will not be following you in that direction, and that even if you find some cool stuff in it, I will most likely not add it to the guide. ^^ (But of course I'll still help you with the theory as best I can!)

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alfaman09 เขียน:

Hey OP, AMAZING GUIDE! I'm loving this build so far. Quick question though, is the double Predator Support necessary or are there better alternatives on the 6l? I understand it on the weapon for spiders but just wanting to know if there is a better option.

Thanks in advanced if you're able to respond to this!

Predator is an amazing gem, even if you already have one on another minion. On top of the ability to focus an enemy, which is life changing, the gem grants more damage that Minion Damage on marked enemies. And remember also that you don't need 5 million DPS on white mobs, so not having 100% of your insane DPS on monsters that die in one hit is no big deal, what matters is how hard you hit on tanky stuff, which you should be marking anyway. :)

So in my opinion, there isn't really a better alternative, but you can feel free to experiment with other gems!

Edit: Also, Predator has the Duration tag, which means it'll get +2 levels from the Skin of the Loyal's "+2 to level of socketed duration gems" if you get one. :)

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Homer77 เขียน:

Hey, I like the guide - but too much buttons for me. So I decided to replace Predator support with something else because I use right mouse for molten shell and middle mouse for vaal-disziplin and have already too much buttons for me to use.

What else would be good for the blue socket? At the moment I use Minion Speed Support for the Chest and Minion Damage Support for the Dagger. What would be a good choice for the blue sockets if not using Predator?

Another question - I am sorry I am not happy with the golem, so any suggestion I can use instead (thinking about holy relic)? Frenzy support is not a must have, I am right? Or should I use frenzy in weapon or dagger in a blue socket for the predator?

But maybe I already changed too much.

I've been using Holy Relic for about a week now, and I have to say I love it. I will most likely be adding it to the guide. :) And so far I'm linking it with Feeding Frenzy and Cast when Damage Taken (which appears to feel a bit smoother than Cast when Stunned).

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TheLadyApoLLo เขียน:

Saying I got some good Stygian Vises that I can slam influence exalted orbs to use in conjunction with The Stempede, what would be better?

-Slaming Crusader's % Increased maximum Energy Shield
-Slaming Warlord's % increased Armour (and, if it fails, there is also a chance of Reduced Extra Damage from Critical Strikes)

Honestly, both are great. Personally I would go for Warlord, since more armour means more ES on block, and reduced crit damage is a highly underestimated defensive layer, but more ES would also be good. ^^

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Vatinas เขียน:

I just wanted to remind everyone of something: while, of course, you should seek to push the DPS if you want, remember that this is not what I intend for the guide. I want this build to be a good offence/defence hybrid, and giving up Shaper's Touch would make us lose a *lot* of defence (not to mention the 4G sockets which would be very constraining for us), and un-anointing Potency of Will would make us gain PoB DPS, sure, but would make us lose lots of quality of life, as well as effective DPS by requiring us to cast our buffs / spiders more often.

Once again, feel free to change the build however you like! ;) I'm just saying this to let you guys know that I will not be following you in that direction, and that even if you find some cool stuff in it, I will most likely not add it to the guide. ^^ (But of course I'll still help you with the theory as best I can!)

Yep, I know about ur position, but faced with high-level content like dilirium and 5-orbs maps, I have to look for something, which can givie me more damage, even to the detriment over defence.
but losing more than 10k armor is not a good solution either, so I rush from one PoB to the next, while continue to collect currency for awakened multistrike ^_^