[3.11] CoC Ball Lightning Assassin - 20M+ Shaper DPS/10k ES/fortify - League Starter Guide Included

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VigilanteCat เขียน:

The calculator appears to account for needing 40% inc aoe to reach 13 hits. Is the calculator wrong for our purposes? If so, how could we tweak it to be more accurate for Coc? Thanks for the replies!

If you set the "more/less projectiles speed" to -50% (which is the value for the old slower projectiles), you can see that BL hits 13 times at 0% inc AoE.

For CoC, I explained the logic in my previous guide:
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2653742

Go to DPS calculation > step 4 > long explanation.

If you use the same logic you can say that BL will hit 9-10 times per cast with the new slower projectiles and 40% inc AoE.
9 hits per cast (from 13) is equivalent to 31% less damage.
10 hits per cast (from 13) is equivalent to 23% less damage.

If you want the true value, you have to test it ingame. By using self-poisoning mechanics, you can easily track the number of hits because you know the number of poisons on you.

The tree changes barely effect us, the build looks to be fine

For amulet anointment, the new notable Adjacent Animosity might be better than Tranquility. Hmm...

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N0esy เขียน:

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VigilanteCat เขียน:

The calculator appears to account for needing 40% inc aoe to reach 13 hits. Is the calculator wrong for our purposes? If so, how could we tweak it to be more accurate for Coc? Thanks for the replies!

If you set the "more/less projectiles speed" to -50% (which is the value for the old slower projectiles), you can see that BL hits 13 times at 0% inc AoE.

For CoC, I explained the logic in my previous guide:
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2653742

Go to DPS calculation > step 4 > long explanation.

If you use the same logic you can say that BL will hit 9-10 times per cast with the new slower projectiles and 40% inc AoE.
9 hits per cast (from 13) is equivalent to 31% less damage.
10 hits per cast (from 13) is equivalent to 23% less damage.

If you want the true value, you have to test it ingame. By using self-poisoning mechanics, you can easily track the number of hits because you know the number of poisons on you.

Sorry, it appears I misread/misunderstood your last reply even though you explicitly gave the reason for us needing the 40% aoe for the CoC version even before the Slower Proj nerf (I had not considered that the BL aoe is actually larger natively than the Cyclone aoe).

I guess I just had it stuck in my head from last league when I first started messing with BL that aoe was not needed for max ticks with Slower Proj normally (according to a ProjectPT video and calc) and assumed you just grabbed a few nearby aoe nodes to compensate for the typically closer range nature of CoC since I couldn't see what your aoe numbers were actually based on. It turns out they were based on your own extensive testing! Thank you for clearing that up for me!

I do still wonder what the optimal aoe will be for BL CoC now however, as we can grab 10% for 1 passive point and 20% for 3 as well as things like the aoe helm craft and a possible aoe notable on our Megalomaniac. I might have to look into the whole self-poison thing and do some testing myself in the upcoming league.

Thanks again for the great guide and quick responses to my questions/speculation!

Edit: According to the calculator, if you roughly assume "our" starting aoe is -40% due to distance (I'm sure this isn't 100% accurate but I have nothing else to go on), once you get to +12% you go from 9 to 10 hits per cast so more aoe might possibly be worth the investment, depending where you get it and the opportunity cost.

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VigilanteCat เขียน:

I do still wonder what the optimal aoe will be for BL CoC now however, as we can grab 10% for 1 passive point and 20% for 3 as well as things like the aoe helm craft and a possible aoe notable on our Megalomaniac. I might have to look into the whole self-poison thing and do some testing myself in the upcoming league.

It would be great if you test it and post the result here. I got hooked on the magma orb buff, so I won't be able to test it.

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VigilanteCat เขียน:

Edit: According to the calculator, if you roughly assume "our" starting aoe is -40% due to distance (I'm sure this isn't 100% accurate but I have nothing else to go on), once you get to +12% you go from 9 to 10 hits per cast so more aoe might possibly be worth the investment, depending where you get it and the opportunity cost.

You can't assume you have -40% AoE. One of the biggest reasons is that the AoE scaling is not linear. For example, the base area radius of BL is 22, and every 10% inc AoE increases the radius by 1, up to 40% inc AoE. Thus, The area radius is 26 with 40% inc AoE. However, with 50% inc AoE, the radius is still 26, so the last 10% inc AoE is completely wasted. You can easily test it in PoB.
Basically, the more inc AoE you get, the less rewarding it becomes.

Edit: The area radius calculation in the spread sheet you linked is completely wrong, as it does not account for that fact that the radius is rounded off.

Are we forced into a Presence of Chayula now, or do we just ignore the stun changes and continue to blast?

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Darkrebel13 เขียน:

Are we forced into a Presence of Chayula now, or do we just ignore the stun changes and continue to blast?

The boots enchant "80% chance to avoid being stunned if you've killed recently" and the passive node arcane swiftness will give you stun immunity during mapping. By the time you face the endgame bosses, you should be able to afford a better but more expensive solution, such as cluster jewels, presence of chayula, etc. I'll update the guide once I got a good idea, but it might take a few weeks.

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N0esy เขียน:

You can't assume you have -40% AoE. One of the biggest reasons is that the AoE scaling is not linear. For example, the base area radius of BL is 22, and every 10% inc AoE increases the radius by 1, up to 40% inc AoE. Thus, The area radius is 26 with 40% inc AoE. However, with 50% inc AoE, the radius is still 26, so the last 10% inc AoE is completely wasted. You can easily test it in PoB.
Basically, the more inc AoE you get, the less rewarding it becomes.

Edit: The area radius calculation in the spread sheet you linked is completely wrong, as it does not account for that fact that the radius is rounded off.

Yes, I completely understand that which is why I said it probably wouldn't be 100% accurate but it appears to check out. Also, I didn't say 10% inc aoe did anything for us, but 12%+ does (which I did test in PoB using a modified helm craft and it takes us to 27 radius) meaning with 52% inc aoe total we hit that 27 radius mark and 62% gives us 28. Additionally, that calculator comes straight from the Poe Wiki so if it's completely wrong I don't know what to say other than I guess we need a better calculator. I'll try to do some testing when the league starts and see if I can get some numbers that are actually accurate for CoC and report back.

Can the Spellslinger PoB be used in 3.11?
Want to start with your build.

According to PathofMatth the Bl miners are looking at 100% total increased inc aoe, to be able to get of the 13 hits per cast.