[3.25] Ice Dancing Queen - Icestorm/Cyclone/CI - Viable For Everything

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jjmccaw เขียน:

What are your guys thoughts on an invocation to add?

Elemental Overload gives you three points back, it's probably the best value.

Hello all.
Played with Kelvynn Builds a lot of time.
Now I play mostly standard. Decided to try the tricster version (previously played scion since 3.13). Due to missing of sanctum in standard, I understand that there are no options other than spending 3 points for Elemental Overload. Am i right?
Thought about Impossible Escape to save a few points, but I do not understand what jewel can be sacrificed.

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WinterHiko เขียน:

You just need Enlighten 3 + charisma annoint. If you switch Steelwood Stance, you lose some block chance for 10-15% more damage, which seems like a good trade to me, considering the sheer tankiness of the build.

Steelwood Stance is more than just "some block chance". It's your baseline defense against multiple physical hits. Dropping it will result in more deaths while mapping, or having to choose map mods carefully, or taking time to read the altar downsides and avoiding some of them. Or failing the Simulacrum.

There are multiple ways to go more glass cannon with this build. Dropping some defenses for some more damage. It may be worth doing depending on your league goals. But if lv 100 is one of them then I would not recommend doing that kind of stuff until you get it.

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What are your thoughts on putting Wave of Conviction directly in the Curse setup instead of Ball Lightning? I'm curious to hear your thoughts.

WoC is a directional wave. Its range depends on Inc Duration. Without ID it will fade way too quickly. And even with ID it will fail to reach as far as BL. For example, if you are in the center of the Maven arena and she is at the edge, WoC will not get to her but BL will.

Before the Trickster, we also used to value the ES gain on hit Watcher's Eye mod. It's amazing for the Ascendant and Occultist, still not bad for the Trickster. If you use it then BL is even better because it hits each target 5 times per second.

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Tur1cH เขียน:

Hello all.
Played with Kelvynn Builds a lot of time.
Now I play mostly standard. Decided to try the tricster version (previously played scion since 3.13). Due to missing of sanctum in standard, I understand that there are no options other than spending 3 points for Elemental Overload. Am i right?
Thought about Impossible Escape to save a few points, but I do not understand what jewel can be sacrificed.

Correct. The relics and invocations are not available without Sanctum. Just spend the 3 points to get EO.

I couldn't find a way to gain anything with Impossible Escape jewels.

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whiterockxx เขียน:

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stoudtlr เขียน:

I would definitely love to see these pob's once you have time to finish them.

I had few hous to play today and made few upgrades on my character.

https://pastebin.com/6Dn4kVDt (updated)

There are 2 trees, the Low-budget and the High-Budget

If didn't configured anything wrong, its low-block with 2.1M damage per hit and almost 12k ES.

I tried Uber Maven and she just melts, was really clean and fast!

There is still a lot of room for improvement with time/currency!

I finally found time to look at your crit version. It's interesting for sure. Of course, the peak damage requires a number of things such as flasks always on, ES always full, the target is fully cursed (and you have curse on Vortex, i.e. you have to get to them first).

If you un-check the flasks and always full ES, the damage becomes only 27% higher than my 3.20 final gear version. While being a whole lot more squishy.

The main reason for adding Block and Spell Block to this build in 3.15-16 was to survive the fights with multiple enemies that you cannot 1-shot, such as Simulacrum and the All At Once invitations. The crit glass cannon would get absolutely destroyed by The Uber Feared and would probably have trouble finishing Sim 21-30 (at least before getting high budget gear).

Now that they removed the uber invitation mode, it makes more sense. Should be good for bossing.

Dropping all block looks unsafe for mapping though. And Sims. And if the Uber Feared ever returns.

Also: no defense against stun other than the basic 50% from ES.

Makes me wonder what can be done with the regular version if I trade block for more damage. Or add some crit to it.

There is another good catch that works for the Trickster: with so many Mastery nodes collected for Polymath, switching the Attributes Mastery from 5% all attr to +5 Int per mastery gives a little more Int. I totally missed that.

So, I've tinkered a little bit in PoB to see what can be done at the high end if we want to trade some safety for damage:

https://pobb.in/iLdy8YsLabV6 (updated)

1. Added Hatred (without dropping Aspect of the Spider). Requires crafting a helmet on a lab enchanted base with 30% MRE for PoE or Hatred.

2. Added Enlighten 4.

3. Traded Steelwood Stance for Charisma.

4. Added another ES Mastery with 25% MRE for Discipline.

5. Used a Watchers Eye with Hatred cold pen.

Result: 33% more damage, i.e. even a little higher than the high budget version of the crit project. While still safe from stun and keeping most of the block and spell block.

A high budget option.

P.S.: Went to test this and absolutely destroyed Uber Maven and Uber Sirus.

Let me concur with Kelvynn. I did the hatred analysis last league and confirmed it was about 25% more damage for the version I did (I didn't have the helm so didn't play it.) I also tried whiterockxx's crit build this league and after two weeks and an unusual number of deaths, spec'd out of it and stopped dying (with the same playing style, note.)

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Kelvynn เขียน:

So, I've tinkered a little bit in PoB to see what can be done at the high end if we want to trade some safety for damage:

https://pobb.in/iLdy8YsLabV6 (updated)

1. Added Hatred (without dropping Aspect of the Spider). Requires crafting a helmet on a lab enchanted base with 30% MRE for PoE or Hatred.

2. Added Enlighten 4.

3. Traded Steelwood Stance for Charisma.

4. Added another ES Mastery with 25% MRE for Discipline.

5. Used a Watchers Eye with Hatred cold pen.

Result: 33% more damage, i.e. even a little higher than the high budget version of the crit project. While still safe from stun and keeping most of the block and spell block.

A high budget option.

P.S.: Went to test this and absolutely destroyed Uber Maven and Uber Sirus.

thanks for the updated POB (in the post after this one) above Kelvynn and will definitely take a look. just wanted to comment that i took the crit version supplied by (i think?) winter and was definitely able to do a sim 30. i agree however its much less tankier but personally have been more successful in sanctum than the EO version (makes sense since a glass cannon in there is ok). looking forward to revisiting your POB and getting the tank back

Thanks for the thoughts, Kelvynn, it really helps. The extra high-end is super interesting, I hadn't even considered running both Aspect and Hatred.

I still struggle with feeling the 8% difference in attack block chance from Steelwood, but you have way more experience than me.

I think you're right about Ball Lightning vs. Wave of Conviction. I don't think there's much we could do with the extra gem slots anyway. It did give me great food for thought for other builds who could be slot starved, though, I appreciate it. Anectodally, I tried WoC on another build with Hextouch, a Curse and CWDT and I didn't feel like it applied the Curse as much (no increased duration too). Nothing scientifically tested, though, so it's still just feelings. If yours are the same, then it's probably right.

Your build and explanations (and the Scion version) is what got me from barely understanding how to make a build to tinkering with my own. It also got me through Ubers for the first time. Keep up the good work!



@jjmccaw : I didn't make the crit version, wouldn't want to take credit for someone else's work.

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WinterHiko เขียน:

I still struggle with feeling the 8% difference in attack block chance from Steelwood, but you have way more experience than me.

It's not about the 8% block, it's about the 800 armour. Look at the phys mitigation with and without it (just let some Act 10 trash hit you while the stat panel is open). It becomes less important with good gear, but it's a real life saver early on, in nasty maps, or in Sim. Places where you can take a lot of hits.