[3.25] Ice Dancing Queen - Icestorm/Cyclone/CI - Viable For Everything

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Bellaluna1722 เขียน:

I have a question concerning something that I realize happens quite a bit to me. I think I read about it a handful of pages ago, but sometimes, my character will start stutter-stepping (with Icestorms no longer falling, but my character is still spinning as if nothing went wrong). I bound my cyclone to a keybind to help, but I wonder if it isn't because I got stunned.

Do we have any corruption available to would help with avoiding stuns? Or is it just something to look out for generally. Now granted, I still have ways to go to better my gear (therefore get more ES). Just need to farm more as I've been busy IRL and the prices of stuff skyrocketed before I could even begin to properly buy.

I do have the '50% of your ES is added to your Stun Threshold' mastery.

I am just wondering if that occurrence is a bug, or it's just that I get stunned. It generally goes away when I stop cycloning once I'm in a safe spot, then start again.

This can be caused by several things:

a) You don't have enough mana regen or recoup to sustain Icestorm. Cyclone costs only 2 mana, Icestorm costs a lot more. Make sure your Immortal Call is low level (lv 6 is optimal). Have mana recoup crafted on a ring, or on Watchers Eye. Crafting -7 mana cost of skills on the other ring is nice too.

b) You are getting stunned too much. With under 10k ES it can still happen, especially in this league with all those extra annoying additional mods that you might overlook when opening the map. Use the Corundum flask recommended in the guide.

c) Monsters spawning directly on you (from a box or whatever) can get you 'stuck' unable to do anything until you move.

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Bellaluna1722 เขียน:

I have a question concerning something that I realize happens quite a bit to me. I think I read about it a handful of pages ago, but sometimes, my character will start stutter-stepping (with Icestorms no longer falling, but my character is still spinning as if nothing went wrong). I bound my cyclone to a keybind to help, but I wonder if it isn't because I got stunned.

Do we have any corruption available to would help with avoiding stuns? Or is it just something to look out for generally. Now granted, I still have ways to go to better my gear (therefore get more ES). Just need to farm more as I've been busy IRL and the prices of stuff skyrocketed before I could even begin to properly buy.

I do have the '50% of your ES is added to your Stun Threshold' mastery.

I am just wondering if that occurrence is a bug, or it's just that I get stunned. It generally goes away when I stop cycloning once I'm in a safe spot, then start again.

If you get stunned, your cycloning will momentarily stop, then start again. It's barely noticeable during mapping. It's mostly probelmatic during bossing, as if prevents you from Frostblinking during the stun animation.

What you're describing (still cycloning but CwC doesn't proc) is not from stuns. I do not know where it comes from. It's probably got something to do with latency or desync from servers, much more than a game mechanic. Since no one in the thread has reported the same issue, I'd say it's probably servers more than a general bug.

EDIT : Or what Kelvynn said about mana issues. That's probably it, actually.

Simplex Crafting Notes (Part 2)

I went and crafted another Simplex. This time armed with the knowledge from the previous craft, paying attention to the important things, gathering more information, answering the questions that popped up after already completing the first craft. And this time I'm pretty sure I know how it works. Well, most of it...

1. Having the amulet in the same VISIBLE state does not produce the same results. I applied one catalyst, recorded the outcomes shown by Hinekora. Then applied a different catalyst to change the item, and then the previous catalyst again. With the same quality as before, the outcomes were completely different. This means it's safe to use any catalyst to force the change. You don't have to use different quality every time. Whatever random seed used by the system is based on the item ID which changes every time the item is modified in any way.

2. The 'good' and 'bad' mod combinations are not really good or bad. As somebody observed, they can switch places. They are just two separate groups that always behave in the opposite ways. Amulets in the same group always produce exactly the same result IF the target mod is chosen (that's when they are 'good'). And if it's not chosen then they produce random bad results. When one group is 'good', the other group is 'bad', and vice versa. Always. This happened in 100% of my attempts in this crafting session with 100% of the tested amulets.

The one plausible explanation I came up with is this:
- When merging two items via the Awakener's Orb, the system chooses a 'seed' for the pseudo-random rolls based on the target item's ID;
- There is a fixed list of influenced mods;
- The system decides if it's going to check that list from top to bottom, or from bottom to top;
- It keeps the first influenced mod found on the item.

When the item has only 1 influenced mod (e.g an alt-spammed blue amulet) there is only 1 possible choice. The 1-mods are always 'good'. But with the 2-mods the result depends on the order of the mods on the fixed list and the direction the system is using.

The mod "Dmg per 15 Int" is somewhere in the middle of the list. I have 12 different combinations of it, and they are split evenly, 6 in each group. When the system goes from top to bottom of the list, about half of the mods are found before Dmg/Int - those become the 'bad' amulets. And the other half are located after Dmg/Int, therefore the system picks it - the 'good' amulets. When the direction is reversed, those groups switch their good/bad status.

The mod "%Inc Attr" is closer to one end of the list. I have twice as many amulets in one group compared to the other.

3. After the influenced mods are chosen (1 guaranteed %Int from the Simplex base and 1 Shaper mod from the donor amulet), the 3rd mod is ALWAYS the same for all amulets from the same group with that mod.

If it chooses %Attr then all amulets from that 'good' group show the same exact outcome. If it chooses the other mod ('bad') and you have 2 or more different amulets with %Attr and that mod - they will all show the same outcome.

I wonder if the same is true for items with more than 3 mods. Simplex only has 1 mod that's filled in after the Awakener merge. I should try applying Hinekora's lock to a regular Crusader amulet and see what it shows if try merging it with all my Shaper ones. Will the rest of the mods always be the same for all amulets from the same group? I'll try that later.

4. Magic or Rare - it does matter for the 2-mods! I have these two amulets with the same exact influenced mods, of the same tier too:

and they always behave the opposite way! When one is 'good' (chooses %Attr) - the other one is 'bad' (chooses Movespeed), and vice versa. I don't have any other magic 2-mods. But these two always behave like this. I made sure to check them in every single attempt.

5. A special case:

This amulet is always 'good' since the system can only choose between the two target mods. However, it's also completely useless because the outcome always matches the outcome from one of the other groups (a consequence of #3 above).

6. 3-mods. Those are very rare. I accidentally chaos spammed one myself and bought a few more. With them it all depends on the positions of the mods on the fixed list used by the system. If the additional mods are both found on that list before or after the target mod then they can be randomly 'good'. If one junk mod is on the list before the target mod and the other one is after it - then they are always 'bad' because no matter which direction the system chooses one of them will be found first. So they can, in theory, increase your chances of success, but it's not really worth the currency.

7. This craft took me 29 attempts. And the first one was somewhere around 30-35. Which is consistent with the speculative math from the first post with the notes. Of course, the sample size here is too small to be sure. But the 30-40 div estimate still looks good.

Conclusion:

You need only 6 amulets for this craft to have the best chance of success:
1) 1-mod %Attr;
2) 1-mod Dmg/Int;
3-4) %Attr + something else. Any two that behave the opposite way;
5-6) Dmg/Int + something. Any two that behave the opposite way.

If you have any 3-mods - keep them and try them too. Just in case.

I'll update the main write-up with the new results and revised group lists.

Oh, and ALWAYS have the Simplex base imprinted! Even with all my experience, I've managed to accidentally click on it and complete the craft instead of cancelling it. This mistake cost me 1 Craicic Chmeral + 1 Awakener's Orb. Instead of 150 div. ALWAYS IMPRINT!!

The Simplex Crafting post has been updated. Good luck crafting!

Looks that craft of exile supports using Awakener's orb. Maybe we can view its source code to see how the orb works.

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vbvan เขียน:

Looks that craft of exile supports using Awakener's orb. Maybe we can view its source code to see how the orb works.

The only place where I see Awakener's Orb on CoE is the Emulator. When I combine a 1-mod %Int Crusader Simplex there with a 2-mod Shaper amulet, it picks one of the 2 Shaper mods at random and adds a random 3rd mod. A different result every time with the same 2 amulets.

This doesn't help us at all. They are just picking the mods completely at random.

I just did the thing I wanted to do after the 2nd Simplex craft. I put Hinekora's Lock on a 1-mod Crusader amulet to see what mods the Awakener combine would choose.

It works exactly the same way as with the Simplex. All 2-mod amulets from a 'good' group show the same exact outcome with %Int, one of the target Shaper mods, and THREE filler mods that are supposed to be 'random'. But they are exactly the same for all amulets from the same group! Holy shit!!

So much for the Awakener merge being random! Well, the description on it says:

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"Destroys an item, applying its influence to another of the same item class. The second item is reforged as a rare item with both influence types and new modifiers"

It doesn't say anything about "random", does it? Hehe...

People just assumed things and added to the wiki article something that's not entirely true:

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"All other mods are randomly rerolled."

I can't think of any practical application for this discovery other than the Simplex craft for this build right now. We could use it to craft 3-mod Shaper/Crusader amulets that were the 'god tier' before the Simplex rework in 3.23. But they are inferior to the Simplex now. Too bad.

Does anybody know any super expensive dual-influence items that could be crafted for some meta builds?

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Kelvynn เขียน:

Does anybody know any super expensive dual-influence items that could be crafted for some meta builds?

In the original video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuhZXfg1bYg) that I saw about it, they were using it to craft 11/12L Squire weapons (I think thats what they are used for?)

Otherwise they say in the description "I believe this mechanic can craft any mod , I already craft many good frenzy + HP gloves / evade tailwind boots with T1 res / 2* evade chest / 11L wep *4 / 12L wep *1"

idk the price of any of these, but I assume they arent cheap.

New video: Uber Uber Elder

The last of the new uber boss series, my favorite fight in Path of Exile. Frostblinking around the Elder while being shot at by the Shaper just makes me happy! XD

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Maaster เขียน:

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Kelvynn เขียน:

Does anybody know any super expensive dual-influence items that could be crafted for some meta builds?

In the original video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuhZXfg1bYg) that I saw about it, they were using it to craft 11/12L Squire weapons (I think thats what they are used for?)

Otherwise they say in the description "I believe this mechanic can craft any mod , I already craft many good frenzy + HP gloves / evade tailwind boots with T1 res / 2* evade chest / 11L wep *4 / 12L wep *1"

idk the price of any of these, but I assume they arent cheap.

I see. The guy there has a lot of different donor items with different mod combos, and he just tries them all. Like I did in my first Simplex craft, before noticing the trends. That could be done a lot more efficiently with the knowledge discovered here.

And then, based on the items he showed and the description quoted above, I assume he proceeds with meta crafting. He uses Hinekora/Awakener to get a weapon with 3 good prefixes or 3 good suffixes. Then craft "Prefixes Cannot Be Changed" (or suffixes) and scour it. Then exalt slam 2x to try and get 2 more good mods. Etc, the regular meta crafting stuff.

And the same can be done with gloves, boots, chests. For each particular craft, several donor items can be prepared similar to what we do with the Simplex.