What is the Point of Dodge Roll?

What good is this mechanic if I can still get shoved into a corner, surrounded by enemies, or body blocked to death?? Using it to position or escape doesn't mean anything if enemies are still able to physically restrict my character. It doesn't help me if being surrounded while in combat means I am now completely restrained from moving anywhere due to the character collision box. Did they revert the change that made dodge roll reduce your character size to zero? If that's the case, why not just remove the mechanic entirely? Just let the mobs shove me all over the map, no matter their size or anything. Since this game is so desperately dependent on RNG, why not just RNG the ENTIRE experience, combat and movement included?

I just lost a decently juiced map because I moved into an abyss area that ended up suddenly spawning a horde and a rare on top of me, and the dodge roll did absolutely nothing. I was immediately surrounded, no chance to walk away, so my only hope was the dodge roll. It. Did. Nothing. I rolled in place like a moron and died while spamming the dodge roll in a desperate bid to escape.

I know I'm ranting, but I'm like a lot of people in this forum that are very confused as to the actual direction of this game. GGG says they want meaningful combat, but the implementation of things like the dodge roll has shown they don't even know what the heck that means!

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Andalha#6923 เขียน:

I'm like a lot of people in this forum that are very confused as to the actual direction of this game. GGG says they want meaningful combat, but the implementation of things like the dodge roll has shown they don't even know what the heck that means!

Guy, just say you personally don't like dodge roll. If you think dodge rolling makes combat less meaningful that's absolutely fine and very much your prerogative but, no. I'm sorry. The fact that GGG disagrees with you doesn't mean they "don't even know what the heck that means!"

Right now it's a mix of features made for methodical combat and a lot of just zooming and firework on your screen. These things don't mix well.

They said they want methodical combat, then they put in all the PoE1 swarm mechanics and other features that speed up the game. They got to decide where they really want to go with this. I still hope it will be more enticing combat than one-shotting bosses with 1 skill in 2 seconds — but if they go and make another PoE1, so be it. Probably the easier way.

I think the only thing they should do is decide and tell us about it — I'd guess we won't know long before the next release, tho. Still not sure about their way of making a EA beta, just to not test stuff and make it seem like a full release.

The Devs don't like how various movement skills (Dash, Frostblink, Flame Dash, etc.) are used tactically in PoE. Their solution? Dodge Roll, a one-size-fits-all mechanic assigned by default to every character, no matter how thematically unlikely or even silly-looking. It prolly helped that it was an element that enhanced the "Souls-like" aspect of Deuce. It will forever be a core mechanic of the game, and that's just a gorramed shame. ='[.]'=

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KäsePizza#3007 เขียน:

I still hope it will be more enticing combat than one-shotting bosses with 1 skill in 2 seconds — but if they go and make another PoE1, so be it. Probably the easier way.

Guy, I've got some good news. You can already do that right now. All you have to do is not rush off to pick the most OP broken build every league and then stack it with OP skills.

The game is still in development and balance is way off so of course if you insist on picking the OP meta every league this is going to be your experience.

Play something else and I promise combat will feel more meaningful and probably a lot closer to what it's going to be like in 1.0.

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Still not sure about their way of making a EA beta, just to not test stuff and make it seem like a full release.

Early Access is not a Beta. They are not the same thing. Beta is a phase of the software development lifecycle immediately before full release; early access is a business model that allows studios to fund projects that are still in development by allowing players to pay to play an unfinished game while they continue to work on it. PoE2 is not in Beta.

This breaks down the difference pretty clearly: https://imgur.com/D1VNMTS

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Andalha#6923 เขียน:

I was immediately surrounded, no chance to walk away, so my only hope was the dodge roll. It. Did. Nothing. I rolled in place like a moron and died while spamming the dodge roll in a desperate bid to escape.

If you aren't using a second weapon set, you can make it your escape skill. Like a bow with Escape Arrow.

I dodge roll all the time to reposition and get out of danger. Dunno what you are talking about. Heck, my last build heavily utilized lingering illusion.

I do think they need to slow player movement down a bit at the very top end(40-60% movement speed boots are very achievable now) as well as slow some of the fast monsters waay down.

I would prefer to fight a handful of dangerous enemies than a swarm of trash only who's only obstacle is how big your aoe screen clear is. But then people whine because they can't breeze through every monster without stopping. I feel bad for GGG, it seems like they wanted to make one game but are being forced in to another.

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Kerchunk#7797 เขียน:

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Andalha#6923 เขียน:

I'm like a lot of people in this forum that are very confused as to the actual direction of this game. GGG says they want meaningful combat, but the implementation of things like the dodge roll has shown they don't even know what the heck that means!

Guy, just say you personally don't like dodge roll. If you think dodge rolling makes combat less meaningful that's absolutely fine and very much your prerogative but, no. I'm sorry. The fact that GGG disagrees with you doesn't mean they "don't even know what the heck that means!"

Except that other games get it right, including the games in the genre GGG is trying to borrow stuff from. LE even took the time and effort to make the classes have somewhat different implementations that more closely match the theme of the character. I like the idea of an evade mechanic, it is just that GGG implementation of it sucks. It is clunky some places and good others. I got a good laugh when someone posted a comment about what the templar is likely to look like if they continue to keep every newly released class with the same clunky animations.

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Andalha#6923 เขียน:

What good is this mechanic if I can still get shoved into a corner, surrounded by enemies, or body blocked to death?? Using it to position or escape doesn't mean anything if enemies are still able to physically restrict my character. It doesn't help me if being surrounded while in combat means I am now completely restrained from moving anywhere due to the character collision box. Did they revert the change that made dodge roll reduce your character size to zero? If that's the case, why not just remove the mechanic entirely? Just let the mobs shove me all over the map, no matter their size or anything. Since this game is so desperately dependent on RNG, why not just RNG the ENTIRE experience, combat and movement included?

I just lost a decently juiced map because I moved into an abyss area that ended up suddenly spawning a horde and a rare on top of me, and the dodge roll did absolutely nothing. I was immediately surrounded, no chance to walk away, so my only hope was the dodge roll. It. Did. Nothing. I rolled in place like a moron and died while spamming the dodge roll in a desperate bid to escape.

I know I'm ranting, but I'm like a lot of people in this forum that are very confused as to the actual direction of this game. GGG says they want meaningful combat, but the implementation of things like the dodge roll has shown they don't even know what the heck that means!

They do still have the thing where your character size is reduced to almost nothing, but if you're completely surrounded you can still be blocked in, that's always been the case. So dodge roll allows you to escape when you're not quite completely surrounded, and it gives immunity to projectiles. Also you go faster at the start of a dodge roll and slower at the end, so it's good if you get to the edge of an area where you're going to take damage and you need a little burst of speed (it's critical for the Geonor body-slams if you don't find any movement speed boots, for instance) It's not GGG's fault if you're not using it correctly.

It's true that dodge roll wasn't useful in the situation you described, but this was still bad gameplay rather than a bad game. If you treat a situation like this as a learning experience, it will feel meaningful instead of feeling random.

Part of meaningful combat is having foresight and environmental awareness. You died because you didn't realize that the abyss monsters were going to surround you in time, but there's a sound cue and you also know every time that this is going to happen when you kill the abyss monsters nearby. You had warning, you just weren't paying attention.

On top of that, every spell/weapon category has some method of crowd control. You can slow enemies, you can freeze them, you can pin them... there's always something. As you said, you reacted to the situation by rolling nowhere like a moron. It sounds like you panicked. Have a better plan next time.

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Kerchunk#7797 เขียน:

Guy, I've got some good news. You can already do that right now. All you have to do is not rush off to pick the most OP broken build every league and then stack it with OP skills.

The game is still in development and balance is way off so of course if you insist on picking the OP meta every league this is going to be your experience.

Play something else and I promise combat will feel more meaningful and probably a lot closer to what it's going to be like in 1.0.

As long as I do bosses this works just fine. But if I then go into an abyss I just get oneshot if I do anything other then killing everything I see on the screen. Or maybe get some unkillable EV/ES build or thorns.

Getting rushed my monsters just isn't really compatiple with any kind of meaningful combat and skillexpression imo. And having to purposely make your character worse should not be the way to get any kind of engaging fight out of a game - at least not the game I would want this to be.

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Kerchunk#7797 เขียน:

Early Access is not a Beta. They are not the same thing. Beta is a phase of the software development lifecycle immediately before full release; early access is a business model that allows studios to fund projects that are still in development by allowing players to pay to play an unfinished game while they continue to work on it. PoE2 is not in Beta.

This breaks down the difference pretty clearly: https://imgur.com/D1VNMTS

From their steam page:

How are you planning on involving the Community in your development process?
“We need the community to give us feedback about game balance, the economy, and the overall game. We will be actively monitoring our forums, Subreddit and social media and delivering updates continuously throughout the Early Access.”

Every 4 months doesn't seem that continuously to me…

I don't mean this as hate against GGG, I mean they tried doing mid-patch updates — but everyone started crying about those. I would have expected more frequent changes — not for more content but changes to just test out features or balance. But I guess that's just impossible nowadays, cause people expect to be “paid back” for their invested time or smth…