Should Gravebind be removed from the game?

Hi there, you're probably expecting some rant about how Gravebind gives groups an unfair advantage through insane rarity stacking on a single character. And if you're a solo player annoyed by that, I get it, and fair enough. But that's not what this post is about. As a group player I'm actual coming at this from the other side, so let me explain.

We're a group of four and we have no interest in forcing one person into a rarity culling afk build just to get that juicy loot. We're real life friends who want to play games together. But as it stands, running the same map as four, without optimizing for rarity, feels like getting the same total amount of loot divided between four people. Now even if that isn't the actual number (I'm told groups do get more loot than solo players), we still get significantly less loot per person than we would get solo. We often just sit in discord talking, while each running our respective content solo, because doing it together is just too frustrating loot wise.

Technically, without any mechanic groups could abuse to get more loot, a group of four would need to receive four times the loot per map to get the same amount of loot per person. Now I get that there will always be some group effects and I'm not arguing that it should go that far.

But the biggest issue in that regard by a mile appears to be Gravebind. It seems to me that if they either remove the item or change it in some way so it doesn't work with rarity anymore everyone would get what they want. Solo players wouldn't have to worry about group rarity culling anymore and groups could receive a reasonable amount of loot, without group effects becoming too op compared to solo play.

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askii#5202 เขียน:

It seems to me that if they either remove the item or change it in some way so it doesn't work with rarity anymore everyone would get what they want.

Wouldn't that just change things to "Everyone but the Culler uses Piety's Mercy and no DoT"?

To be honest, the main issue is the magic find on gear in general. The game shouldn't be balanced around it because it almost "force" peoples to stack it as it feel bad to not play around it. But as it doesn't enhance directly your character, it just feel frustrating. Personally I really doesn't see the appeal to keep such mechanics. It probably stem from older H&S like unidentified loots & so many outdated mechanics from the past.

im pushing for 100 and run 0%rarity/0%quantity maps as a result

i have like 30 rarity on my other ring

today i made 10k exalts(tablets/maps/charms/bases/abyss) and 5divines, 6annuls, all in 50 maps

i dont get the obsession for rarity, play more and be effective

Yes their are was that are more efficient just like everything in life if you don't wanna do that that's fine no one is forcing you but why should you get the same opportunity as a group that min/max things??? Like here's an idea stop caring how other people play the game, there's always going to be people better/more efficient at all things in life and you not wanting to do it that way doesn't mean they shouldn't. This is 100% a you problem

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Jadian#0111 เขียน:

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askii#5202 เขียน:

It seems to me that if they either remove the item or change it in some way so it doesn't work with rarity anymore everyone would get what they want.

Wouldn't that just change things to "Everyone but the Culler uses Piety's Mercy and no DoT"?

I guess you're right. Maybe the issue is rarity rather than a specific item or mechanic. Removing everything that could potentially be used to abuse rarity in groups would probably limit the game too much.

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Djirane#4170 เขียน:

To be honest, the main issue is the magic find on gear in general. The game shouldn't be balanced around it because it almost "force" peoples to stack it as it feel bad to not play around it. But as it doesn't enhance directly your character, it just feel frustrating. Personally I really doesn't see the appeal to keep such mechanics. It probably stem from older H&S like unidentified loots & so many outdated mechanics from the past.

Yeah that might be a better way of looking at it.

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PyleWarlord#7248 เขียน:

im pushing for 100 and run 0%rarity/0%quantity maps as a result

i have like 30 rarity on my other ring

today i made 10k exalts(tablets/maps/charms/bases/abyss) and 5divines, 6annuls, all in 50 maps

i dont get the obsession for rarity, play more and be effective

Idk how any of this is relevant to this topic. I don't run rarity either and have gear worth hundreds of divines, that's not the issue. The question is, why does the game punish you for playing with friends by handing out less loot per person the more people join the group. And the answer seems to be that the mechanics groups can use to increase loot are so strong that the base amount of loot for groups has to be significantly less than in solo play.

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baconbyte#0146 เขียน:

Yes their are was that are more efficient just like everything in life if you don't wanna do that that's fine no one is forcing you but why should you get the same opportunity as a group that min/max things??? Like here's an idea stop caring how other people play the game, there's always going to be people better/more efficient at all things in life and you not wanting to do it that way doesn't mean they shouldn't. This is 100% a you problem

I couldn't care less about other people being more efficient than me. What annoys me is that the game is punishing me for playing with friends. The more friends I invite to my group the less loot we get per person. That is a weirdly unpleasant mechanic for an online game offering group play.

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askii#5202 เขียน:

I couldn't care less about other people being more efficient than me. What annoys me is that the game is punishing me for playing with friends. The more friends I invite to my group the less loot we get per person. That is a weirdly unpleasant mechanic for an online game offering group play.

Yeah that's not how it works at all..... There's a loot bonus for group play. Not sure how you think you're being punished for group play and what that has to do with gravebinders. You not making use of mechanics in the game is a you problem.

I'd say either yes, removed or they should be changed to where they don't benefit rarity bots to such a significant degree. Gravebind gloves are probably the main cause for extreme inflation in the economy that only serves to benefit those who are capitalizing on its interaction with rarity bots. Consequentially, it tends to discourage the average player from the otherwise amazing trade system.

I've done my share of min/maxing with rarity on gear, and yes it's fun. But I also wouldn't mind seeing this particular mechanic gone entirely, I think it would be healthier for the game as a whole and encourage more players to partake in trading. Just because I have thousands of divs in my stash doesn't mean the vast majority of others do.

So yea +1 for doing away with Gravebind.

Unless...rarity bots are part of GGG's "vision."

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baconbyte#0146 เขียน:

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askii#5202 เขียน:

I couldn't care less about other people being more efficient than me. What annoys me is that the game is punishing me for playing with friends. The more friends I invite to my group the less loot we get per person. That is a weirdly unpleasant mechanic for an online game offering group play.

Yeah that's not how it works at all..... There's a loot bonus for group play. Not sure how you think you're being punished for group play and what that has to do with gravebinders. You not making use of mechanics in the game is a you problem.

My guy.

Playing solo all loots that drops is yours.
That is the default amount of loot per person.

Once adding a 2nd player, there would have to be twice as many drops for a individual player to not be getting less loot.
3 players, 3 times as many. 5 man party, x5 the loot.

There is a loot bonus for parties, but it does not keep up with the player count.
Two man teams aren't dropping double the loot of solos. 5 man teams aren't getting 5x. Where completing a zone solo would drop 2 exalts, so 2 per person; the 5 man group gets 4, so only .8 per person.
There are more drops total, but less per person. Each individual player gets less than when solo.
Functionally, it really is better for a group of friends to all play solo instead of in a party.

Of course, the real problem is hosts who think they should be the only one allowed to loot, taking all drops for themselves well everybody else gets nothing. Not to mention ninja looters.
Playing multiplayer you're liable to come out with nothing, instead of getting your share.

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The_Song#4903 เขียน:

There is a loot bonus for parties, but it does not keep up with the player count.
Two man teams aren't dropping double the loot of solos. 5 man teams aren't getting 5x. Where completing a zone solo would drop 2 exalts, so 2 per person; the 5 man group gets 4, so only .8 per person.
There are more drops total, but less per person. Each individual player gets less than when solo.
Functionally, it really is better for a group of friends to all play solo instead of in a party.

Of course, the real problem is hosts who think they should be the only one allowed to loot, taking all drops for themselves well everybody else gets nothing. Not to mention ninja looters.
Playing multiplayer you're liable to come out with nothing, instead of getting your share.

Yes I understand the amount isn't doubled..... But the amount does go up along with rarity/quality so what does drop has a larger chance of being div instead of say ex. You can clear maps much faster each person is getting more chances per/hour. I only run maps with permanent allocation. If you join a map where the host want to keep everything that's a you problem that's generally for ppl fresh into maps who just want xp. Like if you think running the same maps solo is more efficient for just raw currency drops than running the same maps in group with the same amount of rarity gear well than you can't be helped as that's not just the case.