[Outdated] Ultimate EDTrickster [2M dps - UNKILLABLE]

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Darkxellmc เขียน:

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Jadran เขียน:

Power creep question incoming: can this build do a T19 100% Delirious map?
Trying to compare power to some other builds claiming this, e.g. the Low Life DD+VD Spellsinger.

Haven't tried it. Probably not, at least definitely not comfortably.

ED's damage is just going to be too low, and there are nasty oneshots, especially from beyond, that are going to hurt very bad. I don't know if it would actually kill you, but ED is definitely not a skill I'd use for juiced t19s.

Why aren't you just running a temp chains HH setup like the cool boys tho? Winter orb probably being the best one...

Would you still recommend league starting with ED / contagion if you're going to spend a bunch of time in t17+ maps? Probably not 100% delirium but still fairly juiced?

I love ED / contagion and your build looks sick, but my whole in game economy is based on getting to and sitting in t17+ maps for the ilvl 84+ drops.

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Darkxellmc เขียน:

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Jadran เขียน:

Power creep question incoming: can this build do a T19 100% Delirious map?
Trying to compare power to some other builds claiming this, e.g. the Low Life DD+VD Spellsinger.

[...]
Why aren't you just running a temp chains HH setup like the cool boys tho? Winter orb probably being the best one...

I'm way too much of a bad player for that, was never able to afford a HH or any other very high end item.

But I do love to compare builds in theory before I pick one to play in a new league, and then invariably get burned out somewhere in mid-red maps, and take a break :)

ED feels great to play, probably one of the best feeling builds I've tried, besides a max block Necro back before Mistress of Sacrifice + Bone Offering got nerfed.

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Jadran เขียน:

I'm way too much of a bad player for that, was never able to afford a HH or any other very high end item.

But I do love to compare builds in theory before I pick one to play in a new league, and then invariably get burned out somewhere in mid-red maps, and take a break :)

In that case there's not much point for looking for the "theoretically best" build because that means you completely not count the budget of the build.

Best build for a mirror? Definitely not ED.

But if you never expect to get a mirror or enough currency for it, that's a bit of a moot point.

You should ask yourself 1) what's your typical budget in a league 2) which playstyles you enjoy 3) which of those you can build a functional character on your set budget.

For example let's say your budget is 1 ex, and the best build for that is "ball lightning mines" but you don't like mines, then what? You'd hate playing it and not enjoy the league at all.

So yeah. If you never plan to run a lvl 19 double beyond full sextant + scarab 100% delirious map... no need to build for it. Plus probably only herald stackers enjoyed themselves in those, and that build is gonna go poof when patch lands.

And yes, I've seen that LL VD build (if that's the one where guy has standard gear with legacy Rumi's flask), it takes a lot of investment to get it to the point where it blows everything up. The guy himself tells people don't league start with that version, go for the budget life based VD and swap later.

You can always start with some budget build and if you happen to be lucky and drop a mirror or something similarly flashy, just roll another character of "whatever is the most OP build of the season".

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Jadran เขียน:

I'm way too much of a bad player for that, was never able to afford a HH or any other very high end item.

But I do love to compare builds in theory before I pick one to play in a new league, and then invariably get burned out somewhere in mid-red maps, and take a break :)

ED feels great to play, probably one of the best feeling builds I've tried, besides a max block Necro back before Mistress of Sacrifice + Bone Offering got nerfed.

I feel that, I usually theorycraft a more or less minmaxed setup first, and then I make intermediate PoBs to work a way there.
It personally gives me a long term objective and pushes me to upgrade my gear piece by piece, knowing where I want them to be.
But for this I have to know the setup I'm aiming at is capable of doing everything I want, otherwise that just makes no sense.

Also, feel of a build is soooooo important!
I played Winterorb CwC ice spears in synthesis. Omegastrong setup, both incredibly tanky (10k life) and super high singletarget, with good clear from WO... But gawd was it clunky to play, and I ended up quitting the league early. Now, I'm staying with my trusty EDs and BladeVortex explosions ^^'

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smallholes เขียน:

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Darkxellmc เขียน:

[...]

Would you still recommend league starting with ED / contagion if you're going to spend a bunch of time in t17+ maps? Probably not 100% delirium but still fairly juiced?

I love ED / contagion and your build looks sick, but my whole in game economy is based on getting to and sitting in t17+ maps for the ilvl 84+ drops.

Yeah, absolutely.
ED trickster is a great starter that clears extremely fast for its budget, while staying very safe. This is of course at the cost of singletarget.

When I say it's not comfortable, it basically means that I was dying too much in them to XP past level 98. They are in theory amazing, but you just die every couple-third map, and loose all progress. ED won't be the best for endgame clearing because it kinda hits a damage ceiling, and you can't just invest past it.

Which brings me to my next point. Let's be honest there: no builds ever comfortably cleared fully juiced t19s on a budget. This content is extreme and only tackled by the most meta setups out there, with enough investment. I've personally never seen a setup below 20 ex clearing such maps. Not saying it's not possible, but there's little point in doing so, when each map is the price of your build.

If your goal is to clear 100%delirious t19s with 50 different stacked league mechanics, you'll be hit by ED's damage cap before and it'll be an issue.
If your goal is to be able to interact with all content in the game, and be able to reliably and quickly farm all there is to farm: a good tanky ED setup is pretty good for it. This includes typically hard content like deep delve and t17+.

This setup is in fact my best allrounder since the good old indigon VD hiero back in delve (was the best build at the time, completely broken), that's why I made a guide in the first place. The main thing for me is being to clear all bosses (mostly cortex and aul). I hate to have to call a carry to enjoy my content for me (Protip against this: be the carry :o).
There certainly are better allrounder setups now, but I find this ED setup to be a good one to come back to, as it's fun to progress a character through it, and the output build is very fun to play. If you really want to clear super hard content on a budget, storm brand arcmage will still be very strong, as well as BL mines and BV chieftain.

Dude, thank you for the super helpful reply.

This is going to be my second league, so I really appreciate all the context on what this is about, what it can do, and your perspective on higher tier maps.

If this build can even do Sirus A8 I'll be stoked because my necro struggled with it so bad this league and that was a major pain in the ass.

Appreciate all the info. Will be league starting with this.

If you WERE happy with your exp / level and WEREN'T trying to push for a higher level, so dying a bit didn't bother you... would you do anything different to push for better damage / clear / single target?

And would you even push your investment past 20ex at this point?

Even this league, starting a month ago, I had way more than 20ex in the bank from raw ex and chaos drops. So I'm super happy to push a build into the 100ex range.

What would you recommend swapping to, to enjoy stronger clear? Or would you league start with something different knowing you're eventually going to make that 100ex investment?

I'm completely class agnostic. I just want a RELATIVELY low micro, smooth map clear with the ability to clear all bosses. (So I don't have to risk losing my cortex / Sirus drops; same as you.)

And if I can EVENTUALLY get to a place where I'm one shotting a screen of t17-t18 juiced maps; that's just bonus points.

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Viktranka เขียน:

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Jadran เขียน:

I'm way too much of a bad player for that, was never able to afford a HH or any other very high end item.

But I do love to compare builds in theory before I pick one to play in a new league, and then invariably get burned out somewhere in mid-red maps, and take a break :)

In that case there's not much point for looking for the "theoretically best" build because that means you completely not count the budget of the build.

Best build for a mirror? Definitely not ED.

But if you never expect to get a mirror or enough currency for it, that's a bit of a moot point.

You should ask yourself 1) what's your typical budget in a league 2) which playstyles you enjoy 3) which of those you can build a functional character on your set budget.

Good points, thanks.
1) I can probably muster 20-25 ex in a league if I try hard. So no HH or Watcher Eyes with 2 good mods, etc. Unfortunately I usually get burned out by the time I've spent around 10ex :)
2) I enjoy ED+Contagion so much. Hate mines and too much micro.
3) I am still hesitating between this one and Kelvynn's Whispering Ice Scion Dancing Queen :)

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Darkxellmc เขียน:

Also, feel of a build is soooooo important!
I played Winterorb CwC ice spears in synthesis. Omegastrong setup, both incredibly tanky (10k life) and super high singletarget, with good clear from WO... But gawd was it clunky to play, and I ended up quitting the league early. Now, I'm staying with my trusty EDs and BladeVortex explosions ^^'

Which brings me to my next point. Let's be honest there: no builds ever comfortably cleared fully juiced t19s on a budget. This content is extreme and only tackled by the most meta setups out there, with enough investment. I've personally never seen a setup below 20 ex clearing such maps. Not saying it's not possible, but there's little point in doing so, when each map is the price of your build.

Good points, thanks for bringing this perspective mate!

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Darkxellmc เขียน:

I played Winterorb CwC ice spears in synthesis.

1) storm brand arcmage will still be very strong,
2) as BL mines
3) BV chieftain.

Sorry, i read always a lot of partial name, that you proof player use, but who are new, like me, not know what that mean (wichi kind of build)


Can you write the full name of that build :)? ty

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Homo_Lupo_Lupis เขียน:

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Darkxellmc เขียน:

I played Winterorb CwC ice spears in synthesis.

1) storm brand arcmage will still be very strong,
2) as BL mines
3) BV chieftain.

Sorry, i read always a lot of partial name, that you proof player use, but who are new, like me, not know what that mean (wichi kind of build)


Can you write the full name of that build :)? ty

ball lightning mines (saboteur)
blade vortex chieftain (I imagine the herald of ash stacking with lone messenger cluster node?)

P.S. Also cwc = cast when channelling support

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Jadran เขียน:

1) I can probably muster 20-25 ex in a league if I try hard. So no HH or Watcher Eyes with 2 good mods, etc. Unfortunately I usually get burned out by the time I've spent around 10ex :)

Tbh on this budget "league starter" builds are a decent option, on the other hand the builds that advertise extremely high end damage would not do it "on a budget" for sure.

The highest damage for low budget are probably miners and summoners (the kinds that didn't get nerfed yet). But it's again issue of not everyone liking the playstyle, and also the question even if damage is there the defenses might not be (some people just cheese lack of defenses by either trying to off-screen with mines or hide behind minions on summoners, esp. with taunt on hit for minions, but it's not 100% reliable you won't get hit).

If you like ED I see no reason to not play it, it should be pretty workable on 10ex budget just without some high end items like watcher's eye, helmet enchant, etc. Also things drop in price as the league progresses, if you only play at start it might be harder to get everything, but if you take a break and come back mid league some upgrades might be half the price they originally were.

I`m thinking about playing this build as a leaguestarter when i'm in yellow maps.

What do you think about leveling as a Soulrend/Contagion/Essence Drain Spellslinger build and then switching to ED/C in Maps, if they don't nerf it?

As far as i know the Chaosslinger is a lot faster in the beginning but struggles with damage in red maps.

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exerst เขียน:

I`m thinking about playing this build as a leaguestarter when i'm in yellow maps.

What do you think about leveling as a Soulrend/Contagion/Essence Drain Spellslinger build and then switching to ED/C in Maps, if they don't nerf it?

As far as i know the Chaosslinger is a lot faster in the beginning but struggles with damage in red maps.

Yeah, that'd work fine.
You'll probably want to swap to ED as soon as you can equip a cane of unraveling, but just try to see how it goes ^^
For leveling, chaos slinging is very strong due to the already high damage potential of chaos dots very early on. If you know what you are doing, go for it!
But honestly, once you're in maps, I'm not so sure. ED's already lackluster damage wise, spellslinging really isn't the wisest choice... You'll probably have to swap to self cast in white maps, if you alch them, to be comfy.

That said, just plan your transition in advance, and you'll be fine. Don't rely on res on your weapons/shield, and have enough str to equip a cane. Level a malevolence gem in offhand.
Then, you'll just be able to change a few gems and you'll double your damage output once you start needing it. If you only need it early red maps, amazing! But I seriously suspect you'll want it sooner.