[3.23] 🧙‍♂️⚡BattleTrapper 2024 by 📺/ThatDanishFellow ✔️A9 ✔️HC ✔️Block ✔️All-Content ✔️L-Starter ✔️UPD🔥TES

"

dettmore เขียน:

I'm curious what you all think about this 20/22 Divergent Vaal Lightning Trap gem I just created - compared to the generic Level 21/20 Lightning Trap I was using.

The Divergent has about 10% less base damage and does not have the 20% Increased damaged damage (which I think is additive).

But each ball has a 22% chance to return - they go all over the place it's hard to track them. But it seems like a single additional hit would make up for the lost base damage. In addition every few seconds you get to use the Vaal version, which leaves a huge shocked area. But'm not sure if this stacks with skitterbot shock or is nullified by Elemental Focus (the animation doesn't seem to be)

Anecdotally the Divergent Vaal gem seems better, curious if anyone else has opinions on this.

First of all, 21/20 divergent would still be the thing you want, as the gem gets a lot of dps through levels, while the 22 quality are negligible. Then the gem does not circumvent the basic rule: Every projectile can hit an enemy just once, so you don´t get like 20% more dps off of the returning projectiles. You get a better clear in very dense maps though and it´s possible that normal projectiles that did not hit a boss will do so when returning now.

The Vaal version is again negligible, as shock does not stack. I dropped Ele Focus completely as without it we are able to reach higher levels of shock on bosses, increasing our dmg further than ele focus would - normally we have 18% shock like this, I saw 48% once while using added lightning dmg + lightning pen instead.
So overall: It´s nice to have if you manage to get it to 21 thanks to small improvements to clear. I personally swap for clear to faster proj though, as that feels even stronger. Right now I am experimenting a bit with chain on nemesis farming, so far it´s really nice and I don´t see the necessity of div. lightning Trap.

"

Vennto เขียน:

I dropped Ele Focus completely as without it we are able to reach higher levels of shock on bosses, increasing our dmg further than ele focus would - normally we have 18% shock like this, I saw 48% once while using added lightning dmg + lightning pen instead.

Good tip - even PoB reflects this once you select a boss like Sirus as the enemy type as penetration will make a much bigger difference there.

"

Vennto wrote:
I dropped Ele Focus completely as without it we are able to reach higher levels of shock on bosses, increasing our dmg further than ele focus would - normally we have 18% shock like this, I saw 48% once while using added lightning dmg + lightning pen instead.

Since POB goes off average hit values, it should already be taking into account the higher shock maximum you could obtain by swapping Ele Focus to something else, as part of your avg hit damage, right? As having a 20% shock vs a 50% shock would affect the average hit damage you do.

Yet all bosses have ailment thresholds that you need to surpass in a single hit to apply the shock effect.

You need a substantial large hit to inflict even a 20% shock on a boss(Sirus) target, let alone going above 20% with a single hit. And as you correctly said, shock doesn't stack and so skitterbots already guarantee a 20% shock, regardless of elem focus. https://pathofexile.fandom.com/wiki/Shock

So my advice is that most(99.9%) players should stick with ele focus as they will lose quite a bit of dps from switching ele focus to added lightning as far as I can tell from all the numbers I've tried in POB.

Example: I lose 7.5% avg hit on my current league char by swapping elem focus to added lightning, even if the shock value goes from currently 18% maximum to potential 50%.

Now when you have insane gear as in Vennto's case, the difference becomes much much smaller, again because shock% infliction is based off your hit damage and shock is guaranteed on crit. So if you have crazy gear and thus very high hit dmg + crit cap, the difference between elem focus and added lightning becomes negligible. When I load your character into POB @Vennto, I only get a 0.6% difference (in favor of elem focus).

This was all done obviously after removing the 20% forced shock in the config, so POB was free to adjust the average hit according to how high shock% the characters hit dmg and crit could sustain vs Sirus.

I'm curious if my calculations are incorrect, or if you are getting similar numbers? @Vennto

@King_Haart
The guide pob has Sirus as the default enemy target. :)

I have about 24ex I want to spend on my big next upgrade. I'm thinking of getting corrupted Shav with +2 projectiles/mines. Is this worth the ex here? Or is +1 to all better? Thanks!

"

Now when you have insane gear as in Vennto's case, the difference becomes much much smaller, again because shock% infliction is based off your hit damage and shock is guaranteed on crit. So if you have crazy gear and thus very high hit dmg + crit cap, the difference between elem focus and added lightning becomes negligible. When I load your character into POB @Vennto, I only get a 0.6% difference (in favor of elem focus).

This was all done obviously after removing the 20% forced shock in the config, so POB was free to adjust the average hit according to how high shock% the characters hit dmg and crit could sustain vs Sirus.

I'm curious if my calculations are incorrect, or if you are getting similar numbers? @Vennto

So, here is my problem with PoB when it comes to shock: I dont recall that it actually works properly.

when I load my current setup into PoB I have a hit damage of:
Awk. Added Lightning Damage: 998,5k (dmg cut by 66% compared to last season, yikes)
Awk. Ele Ele Focus: 1004,9k

So based on that without any adjustments to shock, Ele Focus would be a teeny tiny bit stronger.

Now lets evaluate shock: If I do not change shock to anything and leave it empty I get the aforementioned numbers. If I add in 18% shock which is what I am shown Ingame with the new tooltip Ele Focus does not change at all, so the number seems correct. If I add in 20% shock as skitterbots the damage goes up, and that tells me that the ingame value of 18% is indeed the correct number of shock we create with skitterbots, as this is the value we get without typing in anything for shock anyways.

And now comes the interesting part: You would suggest PoB does actually think of a base hit and then takes an average of shock we inflict, but it does not. When I take awk. ALD the damage stays the same on a shock-value of 18%, like it does for ele focus. As soon as I enter even 19% shock the dmg goes up. That means for me: PoB does not calculate the shock we are inflicting with hits, but only the base-line of 18% of skitterbots that we have anyway, so I think the correct call would be to overwrite the base line with a decent level of shock we can inflict, and I based that on the ingame-tooltip when fighting bosses.

When I take the given numbers in consideration even a shock value of 19%, so just 1% more, would be an improvement over Ele Focus, as Awk ALD then reaches an average hit dmg of 1005k. If I turn this up to 48% which I saw once I reach 1194k, and if I set it on 40% shock, which I regularly see and surpass in bossfights, I have 1142k average hit.

Based on all those tests I think shock is something we have to adjust ourselves, else the base value would not be a permanent 18%, even without Ele Focus. And therefore I feel awk. ALD is stronger. That being said, the old rule still stands: Once you have reached enough Pen through the tree, Ele focus surpasses lightning pen as usual.

"

Vennto เขียน:

"

Now when you have insane gear as in Vennto's case, the difference becomes much much smaller, again because shock% infliction is based off your hit damage and shock is guaranteed on crit. So if you have crazy gear and thus very high hit dmg + crit cap, the difference between elem focus and added lightning becomes negligible. When I load your character into POB @Vennto, I only get a 0.6% difference (in favor of elem focus).

This was all done obviously after removing the 20% forced shock in the config, so POB was free to adjust the average hit according to how high shock% the characters hit dmg and crit could sustain vs Sirus.

I'm curious if my calculations are incorrect, or if you are getting similar numbers? @Vennto

So, here is my problem with PoB when it comes to shock: I dont recall that it actually works properly.

สปอยล์

when I load my current setup into PoB I have a hit damage of:
Awk. Added Lightning Damage: 998,5k (dmg cut by 66% compared to last season, yikes)
Awk. Ele Ele Focus: 1004,9k

So based on that without any adjustments to shock, Ele Focus would be a teeny tiny bit stronger.

Now lets evaluate shock: If I do not change shock to anything and leave it empty I get the aforementioned numbers. If I add in 18% shock which is what I am shown Ingame with the new tooltip Ele Focus does not change at all, so the number seems correct. If I add in 20% shock as skitterbots the damage goes up, and that tells me that the ingame value of 18% is indeed the correct number of shock we create with skitterbots, as this is the value we get without typing in anything for shock anyways.

And now comes the interesting part: You would suggest PoB does actually think of a base hit and then takes an average of shock we inflict, but it does not. When I take awk. ALD the damage stays the same on a shock-value of 18%, like it does for ele focus. As soon as I enter even 19% shock the dmg goes up. That means for me: PoB does not calculate the shock we are inflicting with hits, but only the base-line of 18% of skitterbots that we have anyway, so I think the correct call would be to overwrite the base line with a decent level of shock we can inflict, and I based that on the ingame-tooltip when fighting bosses.

When I take the given numbers in consideration even a shock value of 19%, so just 1% more, would be an improvement over Ele Focus, as Awk ALD then reaches an average hit dmg of 1005k. If I turn this up to 48% which I saw once I reach 1194k, and if I set it on 40% shock, which I regularly see and surpass in bossfights, I have 1142k average hit.

Based on all those tests I think shock is something we have to adjust ourselves, else the base value would not be a permanent 18%, even without Ele Focus. And therefore I feel awk. ALD is stronger. That being said, the old rule still stands: Once you have reached enough Pen through the tree, Ele focus surpasses lightning pen as usual.

I think you're right that POB doesn't do a reliable job with shock, question is just how unreliable or reliable it is atm lol.
I did a bit more digging, so this is what I tested;

I tried simply boosting my spellpower a LOT on one item to see if my shock value would go up. Firstly, if you don't enable skitterbots POB doesn't even want to show a shock value under calcs. Secondly, if you in the config enable shock, it seems to only increase my avg hit by 10% or so...which means my shock value in pure gear is lower than by using skitterbots. So does that mean pob shock calcs work, boosting my avg hit by around 10%? hmmm, idk.

That would either suggest my single hit value isn't high enough vs Sirus to get higher thresholds or that POB isn't doing the correct calculations, although it seems to be *trying*.

I do know that the reason skitterbots has always been popular when it comes to shocking is the forced/guaranteed shock effect and because it's extremely hard to inflict high shocks vs end-game boss targets (they have 25mil+ ailment thresholds according to the poewiki and obviously shock is an ailment like any other).

I also know in recent years they made it a tad bit easier to shock bosses, though I'm not sure by how much or if that is reflected by the poewiki and the 25mil estimated threshold vs Sirus.
But generally, elem focus and skitters have been a great DPS combo for anyone that isn't using min/max gear or doesn't come close to crit cap, since only crits can guarantee a shock effect (effect based on the hit dmg% of the targets total maxhp%).

I do wish POB would be better/more transparent with shock calcs, idk why it doesn't show a shock value at all (under calcs tab) if I disable skitterbots and yet enable that *boss is shocked* without inputting a specific shock number. I would assume it should show me my estimated shock based on the target I selected in config(Sirus). Perhaps more redditing* is needed to get to the bottom, or i'll try message one of the community devs from pob to see what he says about it and if shock in pob is only reliable in the case that you already know your own shock value vs the enemy target and can input that exact number, which means we'd be doing the math, not pob ;P

"

oestergreen เขียน:

I think you're right that POB doesn't do a reliable job with shock, question is just how unreliable or reliable it is atm lol.

Yeah, I dont know that eigher, I just worked with what PoB gives me :D

"

oestergreen เขียน:

I do know that the reason skitterbots has always been popular when it comes to shocking is the forced/guaranteed shock effect and because it's extremely hard to inflict high shocks vs end-game boss targets (they have 25mil+ ailment thresholds according to the poewiki and obviously shock is an ailment like any other). I also know in recent years they made it a tad bit easier to shock bosses, though I'm not sure by how much or if that is reflected by the poewiki and the 25mil estimated threshold vs Sirus.

I know that with the 3.14 or 3.15 update they lowered the threshhold for ailments further, so it should be easier to inflicht higher amounts of shock now. And regarding the crit cap: I am at around 92% chance to crit, that´s very close to what I would consider crit cap - definately high enough to guarantee shock effects on a regular basis.

"

oestergreen เขียน:

I do wish POB would be better/more transparent with shock calcs, idk why it doesn't show a shock value at all (under calcs tab) if I disable skitterbots and yet enable that *boss is shocked* without inputting a specific shock number. Perhaps more redditing* is needed to get to the bottom, or i'll try message one of the community devs from pob to see what he says about it

Might be worth the work, because shock is really just very weird :D I guess in the end there´s just nothing wrong with staying on Ele Focus, as it works just fine. But in case I am right and bosses really are able to receive shock-values in the range of 40%+ thats quite some additional dmg and wether or not we use it like that it would at least be nice to know how it works :D

Bit of a tangential question, but since we don't seem to get much benefit from Widespread Destruction on the Cluster Jewel (we don't do Area damage right?) I have switched out the 3 notable cluster for one with more small passive bonuses (I just hit level 95):

"

--------
Adds 8 Passive Skills (enchant)
2 Added Passive Skills are Jewel Sockets (enchant)
Added Small Passive Skills grant: 12% increased Lightning Damage (enchant)
--------
Added Small Passive Skills also grant: +4% to Elemental Resistance
Added Small Passive Skills also grant: +6% to Lightning Resistance
1 Added Passive Skill is Scintillating Idea
1 Added Passive Skill is Storm Drinker
--------

Since I need to allocate at least 3 nodes that aren't Jewels/Storm Drinker/Scintillating Idea, this sacrifices 8% elemental damage for a fair chunk of resistances (the best you could get with the Widespread Destruction would be the +4% elem res and you'd only get 2x of those for 24% total res, whereas I get 3*3*4 + 3*6 = 54% res, so 30% more). Having the extra resistances here makes it much easier to fit other suffixes on all the other equipment for more damage or other things. And this was only 50c whereas all the jewels with the extra notable are at least 1ex (probably much more for one with a good small passive bonus), so if nothing else this is a nice midway step. Thoughts?

And one other question, would it make sense to Anoint Expeditious Munitions instead of Master Sapper? You lose 2 extra traps and a little damage (which shouldn't matter *that* much since they are going off all the time anyway) and you get 10% throw speed and a slightly wider trigger area. Would that be worth it, or does trap throw speed have somewhat diminishing returns past a point?

"

Vennto เขียน:

"

oestergreen เขียน:

I think you're right that POB doesn't do a reliable job with shock, question is just how unreliable or reliable it is atm lol.

Yeah, I dont know that eigher, I just worked with what PoB gives me :D

"

oestergreen เขียน:

I do know that the reason skitterbots has always been popular when it comes to shocking is the forced/guaranteed shock effect and because it's extremely hard to inflict high shocks vs end-game boss targets (they have 25mil+ ailment thresholds according to the poewiki and obviously shock is an ailment like any other). I also know in recent years they made it a tad bit easier to shock bosses, though I'm not sure by how much or if that is reflected by the poewiki and the 25mil estimated threshold vs Sirus.

I know that with the 3.14 or 3.15 update they lowered the threshhold for ailments further, so it should be easier to inflicht higher amounts of shock now. And regarding the crit cap: I am at around 92% chance to crit, that´s very close to what I would consider crit cap - definately high enough to guarantee shock effects on a regular basis.

"

oestergreen เขียน:

I do wish POB would be better/more transparent with shock calcs, idk why it doesn't show a shock value at all (under calcs tab) if I disable skitterbots and yet enable that *boss is shocked* without inputting a specific shock number. Perhaps more redditing* is needed to get to the bottom, or i'll try message one of the community devs from pob to see what he says about it

Might be worth the work, because shock is really just very weird :D I guess in the end there´s just nothing wrong with staying on Ele Focus, as it works just fine. But in case I am right and bosses really are able to receive shock-values in the range of 40%+ thats quite some additional dmg and wether or not we use it like that it would at least be nice to know how it works :D

Can you share your POB? I tried to load from your username but I didnt see 1000k dps from your POB as you said, am I wrong in config POB?

"

Vennto เขียน:

"

oestergreen เขียน:

I think you're right that POB doesn't do a reliable job with shock, question is just how unreliable or reliable it is atm lol.

Yeah, I dont know that eigher, I just worked with what PoB gives me :D

"

oestergreen เขียน:

I do know that the reason skitterbots has always been popular when it comes to shocking is the forced/guaranteed shock effect and because it's extremely hard to inflict high shocks vs end-game boss targets (they have 25mil+ ailment thresholds according to the poewiki and obviously shock is an ailment like any other). I also know in recent years they made it a tad bit easier to shock bosses, though I'm not sure by how much or if that is reflected by the poewiki and the 25mil estimated threshold vs Sirus.

I know that with the 3.14 or 3.15 update they lowered the threshhold for ailments further, so it should be easier to inflicht higher amounts of shock now. And regarding the crit cap: I am at around 92% chance to crit, that´s very close to what I would consider crit cap - definately high enough to guarantee shock effects on a regular basis.

"

oestergreen เขียน:

I do wish POB would be better/more transparent with shock calcs, idk why it doesn't show a shock value at all (under calcs tab) if I disable skitterbots and yet enable that *boss is shocked* without inputting a specific shock number. Perhaps more redditing* is needed to get to the bottom, or i'll try message one of the community devs from pob to see what he says about it

Might be worth the work, because shock is really just very weird :D I guess in the end there´s just nothing wrong with staying on Ele Focus, as it works just fine. But in case I am right and bosses really are able to receive shock-values in the range of 40%+ thats quite some additional dmg and wether or not we use it like that it would at least be nice to know how it works :D

Can you share your POB? I tried to load from your username but I didnt see 1000k dps from your POB as you said, am I wrong in config POB?