Ignite on hit Feedback

Hi

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tl;dr - ignite chance should work like other damaging ailments for smoother and more enjoyable gameflow and build diversity, for rational read below

I'm playing explosive concoction ignite pathfinder at the moment and I'm enjoying it for the most part, but ignite does feel very clunky in comparison to other DoTs or damaging ailments.

My Invest Into Ignite chance:

123% increased chance to ignite across 6 passives (not counting travel nodes needed to reach those)
100% more from a support gem
100% more from the skill itself
23% reduced ailment threshold from Overwhelming Presence (30 Spirit)

25% less from another support gem.

So in total i invest 6(+ travel node) passives, 1 support gem and 30 spirit into ignite chance for a skill that inherently has 100% more chance to ignite.

And yet still regulary i miss to ignite even white mobs (and than just hit them to death with the concoction).
I will ignite eventually by spamming the skill, but it just feels unnecessary clunky.
At this level of invest, inflicting an ignite should be guaranteed.

In comparison:
For bleed:
6 passives and 1 support gem will guarantee bleed on every hit on any skill that deals the correct damage type.

For poison:
6-7 passives and 1 support gem will guarantee poison on every hit.

+ for both you can get chance from jewels and equip to reduce the amount of invest for guaranteed application even further.

Now for just the comparison of the concoction skills:
Both Bleeding Concoction as well as Poisonous Concoction both have build in guaranteed application of their respective ailment, reducing the invest to zero.

I think ignite application from player towards monsters should work just like the other damaging ailments, with a flat percentage based chance unaffected by
ailment threshhold. For the matter of cast on ignite or the likes you can skill put ailment threshold into the formula for balancing.

Kind Regards,

I played a bit longer now in high tier content now.

Feedback is still the same, ignite staying chance based can be very frustrating at times.

But I want to also give positive feedback around ignite proliferation:
Ignite proliferation (i use the Crackecreep ring) feels pretty smooth with the updated values. It is definetly not overpower, but it works very well.
On high mob density it feels really satisfying to visually see the fire spreading on its own. Well done on that part.

It would be cool if there was a way to invest into it to make it even smoother, e.g. a total of 5 passive points in return for bringing the prolif time to 0.75 and range to 2m - somewhere around this numbers. But the base numbers are pretty good for either a ring slot or a support gem as investment.

Kind Regards

Yeah ignite chance feels pretty under tuned. To the point that even with heavy investment your hits need to be basically strong enough to nearly one shot most mobs to get semi reliable ignites.

I've been playing a blood mage going for crit and bleed stuff and the pain points of that ascendancy has really been compounded by the ignite chance issues.

My flameblast seems very consistent for it, presumably due to the high damage per hit (though still running ignition gem on it as well as at least +100% ignite chance from tree). Thing is it now has a long cooldown and only rare mobs and bosses ever survive the initial hit to get ignited anyway. And the fireball I'm using for clear, despite still hitting pretty hard seems to very inconsistently ignite.

I dunno it's a lot of hoops to jump through for a pretty mid dot. Seems like most just circumvent the issue with guaranteed ignite skills but damn it if I invest decently into it I should feel the effect for all my fire skills. Don't want to under rate the work the flameblast ignite does to bosses but overall ignite feels underwhelming and how hard it is to get it to proc seems like the biggest issue currently.

bump, 100% agree. I think ailment application is fine on unique monsters...but white mobs especially have such high ailment thresholds that it feels like in order to ignite them 100% (with similar investment), I need to deal more damage to them then they have effective health.

It's crazy to me I can stack +100% ignite chance from tree. Put on the ignition gem for 100% MORE ignite chance (should theoretically double again) for effectively 4x base ignite chance, then hit a white mob with fireball for half its health and still have at best a coin flip chance to ignite them. I don't know what the actual chance ends up being but that's how it feels from use.

And we can only have one ignite gem in the build, to compound how bad this feels.

I believe the way it currently works is you get 1% chance to ignite per 4% of the enemy's ailment threshold dealt with fire damage. I feel like they could make it 1% ignite chance per 2% ailment threshold dealt and you'd still need to invest into it to get it decently reliable.

Also Ignite is the only damaging ailment that gets an ailment threshold check (probably because its the only elemental one).

Poison and Bleed are both capped at 100%, but once you reach it, you get your well deserved guaranteed applications.

To use an ailment as the main damage source, it can't be chance based, because bad luck is a thing and it feels miserable hitting enemies to death with your fire skill that you specialized, with a lot of investment, for ignition.

Kind Regards

it's just amazing how easy it is to freeze consistently versus igniting consistently. Worse still, even when you do manage to ignite, the most noticeable outcome is an icon appearing on the Monster.

I think the main issue is that if you want to regularly ignite for real, you need to do high damage in single hits. Something like fireball won't work, because it involves many hits of "small" damage. With freeze on the other hand, every damage helps.

So maybe it should always ignite. Or maybe it could be buildup-based somehow. But the current way is not going to work. Because it's either going to be under tuned or over tuned. Luck-based makes it too unstable and unpredictable.

I don't think chance based is problematic if you can build for consistency.

I maintain my earlier suggestion. From 1% ignite chance per 4% ailment threshold hit down to 1% ignite chance per 2% ailment threshold hit.

I'm reasonably confident those numbers would be approximately right to feel at least ok. You would still have the issue of needing to keep your hit damage up to par, but the amount of investment needed for pretty consistent ignites would be much more reasonable.

I agree, there are different approaches to solving this issue.
Either tweaking numbers or making ignite not depending on ailment threshhold at all or giving it a freeze like build up.

Maybe even something unique like igniting always with fire skills but make it so that you can increase the strength of the ignite by further attacking with fire damage (fanning the flames, basically), allowing for ignite builds that benefit from cast/attack speed.

But it's clear that its not very good the way it is right now.
Whatever the solution will be is ultimately ggg's decision, I just hope they have it on their radar.

Kind Regards

I want to understand why Ignite is much more difficult to proc compared with sock or freeze.

There's must be a reason, right?