The problem with combos is actually caused by enemy AI and how encounters are designed

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Orbaal#0435 เขียน:

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Vyend#2601 เขียน:

To do combos you need 3 things:

You need good visibility/clarity to react accordingly to the situation
You need time to do your sequence of abilities
You need to feel rewarded after finishing your combo

And guess what? You don't get any that in poe 2.

Essentially a highly controlled and curated environment is needed to make that happen.

not at all, d2 had this years ago it just lacked sophisticated combos, but even then you can consider certain skill use/item swaps as very crude simplistic combos

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Vyend#2601 เขียน:

What disrupts the flow of the combat for me includes:

Light stuns
Monster density
Monster movement speed
Certain modifiers like mana siphon and temporal bubble/chains
Almost invisible ground effects
Off-screen projectiles

They can make the combat flow way more naturally if they address these things

i don't think this goes in line with your title since this has nothing to do with enemy AI.

imo everything you mentioned will be manageable if the enemy AI will be less aggressive and more manageable in terms of pulling mobs. right now you trigger 2-4 packs at once, then walk through empty space to another pack cluster, separating mobs is virtually impossible. only thing separate from monAI is damage spikes, some small fast white mobs deal more damage to me than t4 bosses in the same area.

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AintCare#6513 เขียน:

i don't think this goes in line with your title since this has nothing to do with enemy AI.

imo everything you mentioned will be manageable if the enemy AI will be less aggressive and more manageable in terms of pulling mobs.

"this has nothing to do with enemy AI, everything you mentioned will be manageable if the enemy AI will be less aggressive and more manageable in terms of pulling mobs"

You're contradicting yourself. The only reason monsters swarm you or shoot projectiles from off-screen is bcs their AI is programmed to do that. It has everything to do with AI.

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AintCare#6513 เขียน:

only thing separate from monAI is damage spikes

Monster AI refers to their logic and behavior in game, when you say damage spikes you're talking more about the raw value they can output. I'm talking about how encounters usually plays out and how is not viable to perform combos when there's all these different factors in combat that you have to take into consideration.

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AintCare#6513 เขียน:

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Orbaal#0435 เขียน:

Essentially a highly controlled and curated environment is needed to make that happen.

not at all, d2 had this years ago it just lacked sophisticated combos, but even then you can consider certain skill use/item swaps as very crude simplistic combos

How many content updates and/or DLCs did D2 receive in 2+ decades compared to what PoE2 would be receiving in a similar timespan?

This is a highly controlled/curated environment. Barely anything ever changed, whereas in PoE2 any given system, mechanic and whatnot could be fundamentally changed, replaced, overhauled or even removed within just a few years.

true ur 100% right

Or just, well, abandon the entire idea and leave it to turn-based RPGs where it belongs.

Problem: Players need time to dish out their combos and when I played 0.3 on the Gamescom, you can experience that enemies are immediately at your position and starting to attack you, while you had time to maybe activate one spell. And if you build right, one spells kills most of the enemies anyway. So combos are almost always not necessary right now.

Solution: The solution is quite simple. Make enemies slower but more tanky. Not just their walkspeed, but especially their attacks. Players need time to read the situation and dish out their combos. A single skill shouldnt kill most of the enemies (that's why they need to be tankier), but combos on the other side should be able to kill a crowd of enemies if done right.

Yes, this would lead to a slower paced game. But I think this is necessary in order to make this game different from PoE1, where speed is king. And if the game gets slower because of these changes, the loot needs to be increased. Like: If the game feels 20% slower because of this, then 25% more loot should be dropped to compensate. (100%-20% = 80%. You need 25% of this 80% to get back to 100% loot dropped).

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Vyend#2601 เขียน:

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AintCare#6513 เขียน:

i don't think this goes in line with your title since this has nothing to do with enemy AI.

imo everything you mentioned will be manageable if the enemy AI will be less aggressive and more manageable in terms of pulling mobs.

"this has nothing to do with enemy AI, everything you mentioned will be manageable if the enemy AI will be less aggressive and more manageable in terms of pulling mobs"

You're contradicting yourself. The only reason monsters swarm you or shoot projectiles from off-screen is bcs their AI is programmed to do that. It has everything to do with AI.

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AintCare#6513 เขียน:

only thing separate from monAI is damage spikes

Monster AI refers to their logic and behavior in game, when you say damage spikes you're talking more about the raw value they can output. I'm talking about how encounters usually plays out and how is not viable to perform combos when there's all these different factors in combat that you have to take into consideration.

don't want to get into semantics here but you listed abilities/mob density not mob behavior hence my statement about monAI which usually governs things like frequency of skill use, how they agro, where they move etc. but yes 'technically' one can see any abilities/mods on mob as part of its AI... density is still not AI.

i wil still say mods are non issue, denisty is non issue if what i mentioned earlier would be adjusted

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Orbaal#0435 เขียน:

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AintCare#6513 เขียน:

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Orbaal#0435 เขียน:

Essentially a highly controlled and curated environment is needed to make that happen.

not at all, d2 had this years ago it just lacked sophisticated combos, but even then you can consider certain skill use/item swaps as very crude simplistic combos

How many content updates and/or DLCs did D2 receive in 2+ decades compared to what PoE2 would be receiving in a similar timespan?

This is a highly controlled/curated environment. Barely anything ever changed, whereas in PoE2 any given system, mechanic and whatnot could be fundamentally changed, replaced, overhauled or even removed within just a few years.

uhm, poe2 dev started with poe1. so way more dlcs/patches when compared to d2. they know exactly what they are doing here that's why we getting copy pasta as leagues

Combo vs rotation. There are plenty of windows to combo in the end game. There are also plenty of scenarios where its obvious you shouldnt be trying to. Reading the situation and determining when you should and shouldnt is the difference between setting up a combo, and just having a fixed rotation. IF you dont like this style of play, build around a singular skill instead. BOth playstyles are an option.

It might not work for you, but it works for me. Let me have fun with it. Go find your fun.

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ogmersault#4806 เขียน:

Combo vs rotation. There are plenty of windows to combo in the end game. There are also plenty of scenarios where its obvious you shouldnt be trying to. Reading the situation and determining when you should and shouldnt is the difference between setting up a combo, and just having a fixed rotation. IF you dont like this style of play, build around a singular skill instead. BOth playstyles are an option.

It might not work for you, but it works for me. Let me have fun with it. Go find your fun.

shouldn't it be the other way around? if you build for combos you should have situations where the combo is either preferred/required or optional. not the other way around... what you saying its like having a melee char that sometimes have to be ranged... oh wait