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abandoning a combo, do you mean esc+logout or dying? when i start a ritual/breach or merely move in certain maps, retreat is not an option, you either finish w/e you started or you die OR you never start it in the first place and spam one skill when this scenario is expected to happen- hence my joke about melee that has to go ranged (against the char archetype)
When youre surrounded by mobs in a tiny circle and have no chance to retreat, you think there is a difference between being ranged and being melee? If you are in melee range, it doesnt matter if you are holding a bow, or a sword...and its obviously not a good time to be trying to pull off combos. Thats my point.
Getting mobbed in ritual is literally the mechanic. Your build can do it, or it cant. Welcome to path of exile. You dont have to interact with all content, just like you can choose not to run maps with affixes that will kill you. learn the limitations of your build.
ok, so if we assume 'combo-builds' having an innate limitation and cannot properly engage with half of the end-game then why are they trying to make more and more things combo-like? this 'path of exile' sounds a bit confusing
and yes there is a difference between being ranged and melee even in ritual/breach. its the duration
You’re being obtuse, it isn’t ,”half the game”, and if you’re holding a bow while in melee range you are effectively melee.
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โพสต์โดยogmersault#4806เมื่อ 26 ส.ค. 2025 16:40:40
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you listed abilities/mob density not mob behavior
How is enemies shooting projectiles off screen or swarming you not a behavior? Not to mention how this pretty much defines on how a player interacts with the combat itself.
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monAI which usually governs things like frequency of skill use, how they agro, where they move etc.
A monster can't occupy the same space as another monster, so they take the shortest path in order to attack you, that is their AI.
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hence my statement about monAI which usually governs things like frequency of skill use, how they agro, where they move etc. density is still not AI.
You're the one getting monster per square meter and how they're programed to engage in combat confused.
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i wil still say mods are non issue, denisty is non issue if what i mentioned earlier would be adjusted
What you mentioned earlier is that:
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imo everything you mentioned will be manageable if the enemy AI is less aggressive and more manageable in terms of pulling mobs.
You said yourself that the problem in your opinion is that monster packs aren't very manageable, and guess what? Modifiers like temporal bubble/chains directly influence this.
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i don't think this goes in line with your title since this has nothing to do with enemy AI.
The title of my post is about how both enemy AI and encounters are designed. One isn't excluding the other. That's why i put things like off screen projectiles, how deadly some of the monsters are and certain monster modifiers in the same list. They all affect the combo philosophy in my opinion.
again man, semantics and technicalities. us dissecting this AI vs non-AI will derail the thread therefore i concluded with my last statement. toreiterate:
all mods, abilities (including off screen attacks) and density are non issue if mobs will be less aggressive and able to be separated (making them quite literally manageable), damage spikes being separate to this that also should be addressed.
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โพสต์โดยAintCare#6513เมื่อ 26 ส.ค. 2025 16:45:06
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You’re being obtuse, it isn’t ,”half the game”, and if you’re holding a bow while in melee range you are effectively melee.
ritual/deli/breach vs expedition. you are right its 75% not 50% of the end game machanics.
yes you are melee for a fraction of a second that is usually shorter than mob attack animation. melee is in melee range period. this is what i mean by duration.
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โพสต์โดยAintCare#6513เมื่อ 26 ส.ค. 2025 16:48:24
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again man, semantics and technicalities. us dissecting this AI vs non-AI will derail the thread therefore i concluded with my last statement. toreiterate:
all mods, abilities (including off screen attacks) and density are non issue if mobs will be less aggressive and able to be separated (making them quite literally manageable), damage spikes being separate to this that also should be addressed.
Monster AI, density and some of their modifiers like temporal bubble/chains directly influence your ability to manage monsters packs and perform combos, what part of this logic you think is wrong?
To me is not about the technicality or semantics, i don't care about that, if you still disagree with something i said there's nothing wrong with that, my problem was how you kind of implied that my post and one of my replies were going against each other.
I'm a big believer of "Anyone can argue but not everyone can make a good argument" so if you think my argument is flawed then feel free to explain why you think that.
แก้ไขล่าสุดโดย Vyend#2601 เมื่อ 26 ส.ค. 2025 17:13:05
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โพสต์โดยVyend#2601เมื่อ 26 ส.ค. 2025 17:02:42
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again man, semantics and technicalities. us dissecting this AI vs non-AI will derail the thread therefore i concluded with my last statement. toreiterate:
all mods, abilities (including off screen attacks) and density are non issue if mobs will be less aggressive and able to be separated (making them quite literally manageable), damage spikes being separate to this that also should be addressed.
The monster AI and some of their modifiers like temporal bubble/chains directly influence your ability to manage monsters packs, what part of that you think is wrong?
To me is not about the technicality or semantics, i don't care about that, if you still disagree with something i said there's nothing wrong with that, my problem was how you kind of implied that my post and one of my replies were going against each other.
I'm a big believer of "Anyone can argue but not everyone can make a good argument" so if you think my argument is flawed then feel free to explain why you think that.
yes things can influence your ability to manage mobs, terrain can do that as well. doesn't mean that its the cause, or thing that should be addressed. imo the 'aggro behavior' to put it broadly. the algo that is often shared in part or in whole with other mobs, and does not consist of mods or even final mob speed, should be adjusted. this is what i consider monster AI, hence my comment on your title. later i realized that our perception on this term differ and so i wanted to clarify it with that 'final statement' of mine.
so while i agree with the 3 points in your OP, my opinion differs on the latter list
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โพสต์โดยAintCare#6513เมื่อ 26 ส.ค. 2025 17:14:22
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yes things can influence your ability to manage mobs, terrain can do that as well.
I don't think terrain can be put into the same category, the items i listed all have something in common; They're all very dynamic and even chaotic sometimes. For example, 2 different monsters can vary a lot even if they have the same modifiers. 1 can be trivial to fight while the other basically breaks the flow of combat.
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so while i agree with the 3 points in your OP, my opinion differs on the latter list
They're essentially the same thing though?
The 3 points in my OP and the list i made after:
1. You need good visibility/clarity to react accordingly to the situation:
- Monster density
- Almost invisible ground effects
- Off-screen projectiles
2. You need time to do your sequence of abilities:
- Monster movement speed
- Certain modifiers like mana siphon and temporal bubble/chains
- Light stuns
3. You need to feel rewarded after finishing your combo:
(We didn't touched this topic so we can ignore it, but basically is reward vs convenience)
แก้ไขล่าสุดโดย Vyend#2601 เมื่อ 26 ส.ค. 2025 19:08:58
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โพสต์โดยVyend#2601เมื่อ 26 ส.ค. 2025 19:03:28
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I pretty much agree with your points. I think those games do a better job at that part, but they're not very successfully comparatively. I wonder why.
NoRest is a terrible souls-like. It has nothing to do with ARPG at all.
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โพสต์โดยAzimuthus#1135เมื่อ 26 ส.ค. 2025 19:17:02
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I think that the combos will eventually work, but just not in the way I want them to be. I want to view skills as tools. With some being better in some situation than others. But there aren't enough different combat situations for that (which is what this post is pointing out).
I think ultimately the devs just want us to press more buttons. Like builds will all just clear the screen and do AOE damage, some build will clear the screen with 2 buttons, some with 3 buttons.
I think they are aiming for execution difficulty instead of tactical/strategic difficulty. That could be fun, or it could be exhausting. Time will tell.
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โพสต์โดยdarrenrob82#3531เมื่อ 26 ส.ค. 2025 19:23:57
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different monsters can vary a lot even if they have the same modifiers. 1 can be trivial to fight while the other basically breaks the flow of combat.
good monster design/mods should throw off your combat flow. what we need is a way to manage it (separate/pull/snipe the mob). with ranged this is very easy, with melee impossible without high risk of dying unless you wipe the whole pack at once but that's defeating the purpose (just wipe the pack from the start - which is what we gotta do now)
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so while i agree with the 3 points in your OP, my opinion differs on the latter list
They're essentially the same thing though?
hmm not to me, like i said, if they address the way mobs aggro this can be managed.
the example above of separating the mob: this is not needed in campaign at all, you can snipe the mob (in most cases) due to low density, but in maps its a no go- however if you can separate (pull) the mob or split the pack (fear mechanic) this can be dealt with without losing mob density
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โพสต์โดยAintCare#6513เมื่อ 26 ส.ค. 2025 19:38:55
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You’re being obtuse, it isn’t ,”half the game”, and if you’re holding a bow while in melee range you are effectively melee.
ritual/deli/breach vs expedition. you are right its 75% not 50% of the end game machanics.
yes you are melee for a fraction of a second that is usually shorter than mob attack animation. melee is in melee range period. this is what i mean by duration.
If you are only in melee range for a fraction of a second, you aren’t being overwhelmed then, you have space. Bosses are a part of end game too, are you not able to set anything up in a boss fight? How about trials of chaos, or sanctum? Does this number diminish as more content is added to an early access game?
Is it possible you’re trying to tackle content that your gear/build isn’t ready for yet? I’ve seen builds clear all the content you’ve described, using combos, as well as 1 button builds.
Not 75% of the game, not even 50% of it. Stop moving the goal post.
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โพสต์โดยogmersault#4806เมื่อ 27 ส.ค. 2025 00:08:31
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