What happened to Engaging Combat? Video Feedback.

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KäsePizza#3007 เขียน:

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cowmoo275#3095 เขียน:

It would be a truly AWFUL loot-based arpg if each and every encounter were "engaging". Even if only 50% of the encounters were engaging.

The sheer amount of time it would take to gear up and upgrade would be insane.

Engaging combat in loot-based games is for bosses. ONLY for bosses. PoE 2 has improved upon PoE 1 in this regard by leaps and bounds.

Yea, you don't want every pack of white mobs being a engaging challenge in the end. They just shouldnt be one, I don't want to need 10 seconds of casting Arc, or doing some full rotation just to clear every pack. Especially when there are 100 of those in a map.

But what speaks against making blue and rare monsters different? Right now, you mostly ignore everything in a map — just kill it fast enough, and it's good. Blue packs are essentially the same as white packs. Why do they even exist then? I never noticed better drops from them as well — maybe because I don't even notice if a pack is blue or white if I don't accidentally hover over a mob and see it for the 10ms before it dies…
Blue packs should be more rare, have mods to make them a small challenge — especially if you don't care. They shouldn't be some minute long fight, but also not 1 skill use… then you could also buff their loot — it's still a game that should feel rewarding, and I think that a blue pack that takes 10 seconds of your time and actually drops something feels way better than 5 blue packs you oneshot and drop 1 ex…
Also make rares more — well — rare. Then give them modifiers that do something else than just flat out damage boosts. Make them visible, engaging, and give them counterplay. Then again — a rare that is a small challenge and drops something good is surely better than 10 rares you can zoom through and have a like 1% chance of dropping something that matters. Also, might help with maps feeling like a slog — where you just run at everything — clear it and hope there is no rare that suddenly oneshots you because you didn't kill it fast enough. The mindless zooming is already possible in PoE1 and imo it feels way better there than in PoE2. We don't need the same game twice — especially if PoE2 feels just worse in the things PoE1 does great already. The vision they had was different from PoE1 — but rn it just evolves into a worse version of it.

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KäsePizza#3007 เขียน:

As I said above, this thread has some good ideas as for how to do it. https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3855808

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IonSugeRau1#1069 เขียน:

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Shrodin#0981 เขียน:

Couldn't power be measured in other ways?

I think you're right using the frame of reference of POE1 where Power = raw numbers; more damage, more health, more defense, etc. It's extremely difficult to balance this sense of power with engaging combat. They are at odds with each other.

But what if power was measured in different ways? GGG even mentioned this as an issue with the current support gems where they are just a source of more damage. And they smartly pointed out that support gems being used to provide utility would be better for the game.

Think about a collectible card game where you collect "power." New cards that you obtain aren't inherently more powerful than others (to a degree), but when you unlock certain combinations, that is what gives the players "power." The same can be said about many action games where as soon as you have certain toolsets, you feel very powerful. It's not just that I now deal 100x more damage and can facetank forever. It's that I can do way more shit that I couldn't do before and can take on obstacles in new ways.

I think GGG needs to seriously consider giving a statement to the players on what their true direction is. Because as of now, their official stance has been "engaging combat." And now everyone is saying "can't be done." So which is it, is the goal to provide us with was promised or is the goal to now simulate the POE1 experience with a new shine?

Agreed 100%, 1 sgot screen clearing is fun for 5 minutes then I get bored and quit. Feels like cheating.

Something that I constantly see being brought as an argument is "POWER" but the truth is, they're not even talking about feeling powerful... that's not what they're really making an argument for... what they're really saying is that they want to feel OVERPOWERED... which is COMPLETELY different from feeling powerful.

There are many ways to make a player feel powerful, and most of them don't involve trivializing the content of the game. Feeling OVERPOWERED is one of the most boring things for a game, it gets old extremely fast too.... which perfectly explains the ABRUPT player drop off numbers of PoE in general, but especially PoE1.

When a game makes you feel overpowered, it's essentially as if they gave you kid gloves because they're too afraid to have you play the game and go through any difficulty whatsoever. It's quite frankly, INSULTING. It's a form of yellow paint if I could draw a parallel.

I still remember how I felt the first time using cheat codes as a kid in GTA Vice City... I was enjoying the game till that point, and then after about 5 minutes of playing with said codes I quit playing it.

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Grayeye#1799 เขียน:

The objective is loot and dopamine, that is what made poe 1 such a success. And more important, added longevity to the game that allowed it to survive.

I have 4000 hours in poe 1, and 42 hours in dark souls 3... that is a slight difference in time investment. And time investment is for GGG money, and belive it or not, GGG is not non-profit association.

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ukarudenkai#6946 เขียน:

Mobs should have 5x HP.
Be 5x less on screen.

Also much more dangerous (but buff our melee defenses)

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ShiyoKozuki#4168 เขียน:

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Grayeye#1799 เขียน:

The objective is loot and dopamine, that is what made poe 1 such a success. And more important, added longevity to the game that allowed it to survive.

I have 4000 hours in poe 1, and 42 hours in dark souls 3... that is a slight difference in time investment. And time investment is for GGG money, and belive it or not, GGG is not non-profit association.

Yes, POE1 is for gambling addicts.
POE2 is NOT supposed to be that and be game play focused instead.

The other stuff you said is pure insanity and if you think that way then you are advocating for POE2 to be a mobile anime waifu gacha because that makes the most money.

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ukarudenkai#6946 เขียน:

Mobs should have 5x HP.
Be 5x less on screen.

Also much more dangerous (but buff our melee defenses)

This fixes nothing because no mob can ever hit me as a caster.

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ShiyoKozuki#4168 เขียน:

This fixes nothing because no mob can ever hit me as a caster.

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ShiyoKozuki#4168 เขียน:

Yes, POE1 is for gambling addicts.
POE2 is NOT supposed to be that and be game play focused instead.

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cowmoo275#3095 เขียน:

But you can't copy/paste literally the entire PoE 1 game onto PoE 2....and just expect a different result.

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cowmoo275#3095 เขียน:

The ONLY fundamental difference is that they simply tried to neuter everything in terms of power and speed. That doesn't make a different game....it makes the SAME game, in slow motion.

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cowmoo275#3095 เขียน:

And that is why nothing they do is going to change the game to what some in this thread want it to be. The foundation and skeleton of the game literally don't allow it to develop in any direction other than the same way PoE 1 developed. Because its fundamentally the same game.

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cowmoo275#3095 เขียน:

The foundational changes necessary to accommodate meaningful combat and slower combat long-term needed to be done prior to the release of the open beta. It's too late. The foundations are what they are now, and they most certainly won't burn everything down and build it back up. That is YEARS of work.

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cowmoo275#3095 เขียน:

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IonSugeRau1#1069 เขียน:

If you've played it, you might have heard of the blight mechanic. Speed is absolutely not a priority there since you're mostly required to protect the big bulb in the center, which means you don't have to move a whole lot. The speed argument falls flat on it's face there immediately.

Does playing the blight mechanic make it any less of a "loot grind" kind of game? No. Absoltely not.

VERY bad example......its for exactly these reasons that Blight is one of the least preferred mode of play out of anyone who plays PoE 1. Being forced into a 5 minute encounter regardless of your build strength, while also having to micro towers is and always has been exceptionally polarizing.