i think the issue stopping more engaging combat is the swarmy speedy mobs, add to that the density, on death effects and you dont have tactiful combat you have a "blast em before you are killed" situation
+1, monster design appart from bosses just doesn't work with it. I think less pack size and rares that go more into the direction of bosses would work, tho.
that's the POE1 endgame shoe horned into POE2, you have this slower player/combat idea but use a system from an earlier game that is totally out of whack with that concept.
you can do it in scripted boss fights but in generated maps with swarms of mobs? no it cant happen unless there is a major rework that addressed those issues.
Yea, I hope it's still at a state where GGG can and is willing to do that. I don't see the reason they would make a separate game just to make it the same in the end. Especially if they want to support both games going forward.
i agree about the stash tabs, yes it is still viable if the game is slowed down and the loot grind made less of an priority; but that really doesnt seem to be where the devs are heading. one of the core concepts is to grind for currency. that will expand as we progress not lessen.
it's probably short sighted as i feel people are crying out for a different type of arpg and they would have a larger player base to make money from. they would also still have the POE1 crowd who would play both games.
A grind for currency doesn't exclude engaging fights with rares. Take Lost Ark for example, not a ARPG but a MMO with kind of the same top-down combat. I have my fair share of hours in it as well. They also made grinding bosses interesting — without you one-shotting them out of existence if you do the ones you are supposed to do. I don't want to say PoE2 should be like Lost Ark or anything, but that it's possible to have grind and engaging combat in a game. Also, they had mindless-grind content as well — called chaos gates. At the time I played, it was something you should do like 3 times a day with multiple characters — so kinda like running maps in PoE2 endgame rn. It was the first thing I got tired of and hated to do, and ik that I was not the only one who thought that.
Completely agree with you that it might be short-sighted. I still hope they are not too far into it to still go to their og vision.
I dont want to be to cynical but if we end up with a POE1 clone you will eventually end up with just that playerbase sticking around and their attempt to make a different more accessible game to attract more players will ultimately fail
Yea — idk why they want to make a new game that's different, but then expect everyone to like it. They can't make it right for everyone. If it has more engaging combat and less zooming through maps — ofc not every PoE1 player will like it. If they make pinnacle content hard enough that you need an actual good build and skill for it — ofc not every casual will be able to do it in each league. But that's fine imo. The zoom-lovers still have PoE1, and the casuals have some easy version of the pinnacle bosses they can do.
interesting what you say about lost ark and mmo(havent played it)
heres a crazy take on what could perhaps be done.
maybe they could do a sort of hybrid system, where a large part of player power comes from attribute points and where you distribute them. ala elden ring.
the class you choose would give inherent buff/s to suit the archetype. so warrior could have a buff that makes armour more effective. ascendencies work like now to specialize and make the build more playstyle specific.
loot would drop with say basic stats on it int/dex/str/hps.
currency is then used to empower and customize additional stats that suit your build/playstyle. the mob rarity determines what drops what with the difficulty scaling to match. bosses dropping the best items you would need
the rarity of the loot determines how much you could customize it with special rarer currencies able to add buffs or utility. so white item = 1 slot, blue = 2 etc
dunno im just spitballing here but if we can somehow decouple all the power from the items perhaps we have the start of something retaining the arpg flavour but with a more engaging system, were the player is not solely reliant on the drops to progress.
sounds mad right but maybe that lessens the dependance on the drops as it isnt the only way for power to be achieved while still having the need for currency/itens to be able to reach max power and min/max
You're joking, right? I'm literally not playing any MMORPG right now because they're either outdated, with bad combat or because they're pay to win. You're seriously trying to spin everything around your point even if it makes 0 sense? You people are unbelievable. It's like I'm watching Trump speaking. Just stop already, it's embarrasing.
Hey why don't we try this? Maybe take a step back and realize that YOUR opinion on things isn't the end-all be-all absolute fact.....and that many of the things others have said are ALSO true, if not in many cases MORE true.
It is a completely valid point that MANY games fail because the tax on the player in terms of hand and wrist issues is too high and they simply cannot play it for the length of time it demands. In the 90s and early 2000s there was a serious Carpal Tunnel gaming campaign that led to easier and more ergonomic gaming AND gaming tech. There are a number of other issues beyond the reasons YOU personally have for stopping.
Your narrow view is stopping you from grasping the bigger picture in this thread. Or even entertaining it.
YES you mentioned many times, and the point of this thread is that GGG said PoE 2 would have engaging combat and it currently doesn't.
What everyone else, except you, want to discuss is WHY the game doesn't have engaging combat. But you are currently only fixated on discussing a completely closed avenue: that GGG said it would. Not one person denies GGG said that, it's not worth discussing.
Hey why don't we try this? Maybe take a step back and realize that YOUR opinion on things isn't the end-all be-all absolute fact.....and that many of the things others have said are ALSO true, if not in many cases MORE true.
It is a completely valid point that MANY games fail because the tax on the player in terms of hand and wrist issues is too high and they simply cannot play it for the length of time it demands. In the 90s and early 2000s there was a serious Carpal Tunnel gaming campaign that led to easier and more ergonomic gaming AND gaming tech. There are a number of other issues beyond the reasons YOU personally have for stopping.
Your narrow view is stopping you from grasping the bigger picture in this thread. Or even entertaining it.
YES you mentioned many times, and the point of this thread is that GGG said PoE 2 would have engaging combat and it currently doesn't.
What everyone else, except you, want to discuss is WHY the game doesn't have engaging combat. But you are currently only fixated on discussing a completely closed avenue: that GGG said it would. Not one person denies GGG said that, it's not worth discussing.
Oh wow.. now you're making the Carpal Tunnel argument. You're going through the full list, aren't you? You better stay true to the list and mention disabled people too, like Zizaran did!
Ah yes, another hard fact here from the gentleman... EVERYONE ELSE, except me.. is saying what you're saying and agrees with you. Mhm, yeah. 👍
Ok. Thank you for your valuable opinion. You can go now. Byeee! 🙏 👋
interesting what you say about lost ark and mmo(havent played it)
heres a crazy take on what could perhaps be done.
maybe they could do a sort of hybrid system, where a large part of player power comes from attribute points and where you distribute them. ala elden ring.
the class you choose would give inherent buff/s to suit the archetype. so warrior could have a buff that makes armour more effective. ascendencies work like now to specialize and make the build more playstyle specific.
loot would drop with say basic stats on it int/dex/str/hps.
currency is then used to empower and customize additional stats that suit your build/playstyle. the mob rarity determines what drops what with the difficulty scaling to match. bosses dropping the best items you would need
the rarity of the loot determines how much you could customize it with special rarer currencies able to add buffs or utility. so white item = 1 slot, blue = 2 etc
dunno im just spitballing here but if we can somehow decouple all the power from the items perhaps we have the start of something retaining the arpg flavour but with a more engaging system, were the player is not solely reliant on the drops to progress.
sounds mad right but maybe that lessens the dependance on the drops as it isnt the only way for power to be achieved while still having the need for currency/itens to be able to reach max power and min/max
Some interesting ideas. I'm sure they would need to get some power away from items and skill gems, It's just too much of a difference between okay and good gear rn. But removing almost all player power from it, will also lead to players not needing to upgrade their gear — so loot becomes more or less irrelevant. I'm sure there is a way to make loot feel relevant and good, but still having scaling that's not as crazy. That's what a beta should be for, to find out. But everyone starts to cry if their build is getting put more in line while the league is going…
Loot dropping depending on your build is something they already said they don't want. It kinda would make sense for SSF, but on trade, you kinda want other items to drop — either for sale or a new character.
Interesting idea to make gear more customizable if it drops from bosses or smth. The only problem I'd see with it is that it makes “normal” gear kinda useless — so players will only run around killing rares and bosses — ignoring anything else.
The last point somehow makes a lot of sense. Currently, it's like if you got a shit weapon as a caster, you got like 10-20 times less damage. Maybe they need to make gear progress more as you level and the modifiers less of a factor? Like rn a white massive greathammer got 154 dps. A maxrolled phys damage and attack speed one got 10 times as much. If you add +7 to melee skills, it's another 50% more damage. Perhaps that's just too much difference, and they would need to bring the baseline up?
Ofc noone would run around with a white weapon in endgame, but my point is that if you are missing out on too much damage when you're missing one good mod on your item. Like everything is a multiplier to each other.
You got (flat phys dmg) * (local inc % phys dmg) * (quality) * (attack speed) * (1-critchance + critchance * critdamage)
and that's for your weapon only! Then you multiply it with the global inc dmg, crit multiplier, attack speed, support gem, and more multipliers from other sources. Oh, almost forgot added as and increased damage taken (from shock/intimidate…) and skill gem levels… ofc that somewhat goes out of control
I can still remember them saying something like “we want the tree bucket to multiply with your gear bucket” or something along those lines. Now we got 10 layers of things that multiply with each other…
You're joking, right? I'm literally not playing any MMORPG right now because they're either outdated, with bad combat or because they're pay to win. You're seriously trying to spin everything around your point even if it makes 0 sense? You people are unbelievable. It's like I'm watching Trump speaking. Just stop already, it's embarrasing.
Hey why don't we try this? Maybe take a step back and realize that YOUR opinion on things isn't the end-all be-all absolute fact.....and that many of the things others have said are ALSO true, if not in many cases MORE true.
It is a completely valid point that MANY games fail because the tax on the player in terms of hand and wrist issues is too high and they simply cannot play it for the length of time it demands. In the 90s and early 2000s there was a serious Carpal Tunnel gaming campaign that led to easier and more ergonomic gaming AND gaming tech. There are a number of other issues beyond the reasons YOU personally have for stopping.
Your narrow view is stopping you from grasping the bigger picture in this thread. Or even entertaining it.
YES you mentioned many times, and the point of this thread is that GGG said PoE 2 would have engaging combat and it currently doesn't.
What everyone else, except you, want to discuss is WHY the game doesn't have engaging combat. But you are currently only fixated on discussing a completely closed avenue: that GGG said it would. Not one person denies GGG said that, it's not worth discussing.
Didn't know zooming through maps helps against carpal tunnel - gotta try that the next time my wrist hurts!
Oh wow.. now you're making the Carpal Tunnel argument. You're going through the full list, aren't you? You better stay true to the list and mention disabled people too, like Zizaran did!
Ah yes, another hard fact here from the gentleman... EVERYONE ELSE, except me.. is saying what you're saying and agrees with you. Mhm, yeah. 👍
Ok. Thank you for your valuable opinion. You can go now. Byeee! 🙏 👋
Maybe stop the fighting tho, it's true what cowmoo275 said in the end. We shouldn't be here fighting for who is right or wrong in his vision of the game. Ofc we can defend what we think is a better direction, but he has as much of a right to be here with his own opinion as any of us.
1. Slow mobs the fuck down at least 3x, increase mobs hp 2x whites 3x blues 5x rares uniques
2. Remove +6 to skills, leave like +2 max
3. Reduce all numbers on gear at least 30%, reduce speed multipliers on gear 50%
4. Increase impact on skill tree
5. If skills can be combo used, increase effect of combos at least 50%
6. Many skills need to be added like some movement, defensive skills.
These changes would be good start, all numbers in the game need to be smaller, so you can start balancing game how you want, gear in poe2 is so insane, that RNG in campaign can determine if you like the game or you hate it.
1. Slow mobs the fuck down at least 3x, increase mobs hp 2x whites 3x blues 5x rares uniques
2. Remove +6 to skills, leave like +2 max
3. Reduce all numbers on gear at least 30%, reduce speed multipliers on gear 50%
4. Increase impact on skill tree
5. If skills can be combo used, increase effect of combos at least 50%
6. Many skills need to be added like some movement, defensive skills.
These changes would be good start, all numbers in the game need to be smaller, so you can start balancing game how you want, gear in poe2 is so insane, that RNG in campaign can determine if you like the game or you hate it.
1. Slow mobs the fuck down at least 3x, increase mobs hp 2x whites 3x blues 5x rares uniques
2. Remove +6 to skills, leave like +2 max
3. Reduce all numbers on gear at least 30%, reduce speed multipliers on gear 50%
4. Increase impact on skill tree
5. If skills can be combo used, increase effect of combos at least 50%
6. Many skills need to be added like some movement, defensive skills.
These changes would be good start, all numbers in the game need to be smaller, so you can start balancing game how you want, gear in poe2 is so insane, that RNG in campaign can determine if you like the game or you hate it.
This. Everyone can see what should be done, but ggg can't lol.
I say discontinue poe2, focus everything on poe1. 0.3 is literally poe1, no more no less.
