Harvest needs a big nerf for next league.

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Dan1986 เขียน:

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stnikolauswagne เขียน:

People who are defending it, is probably not living on the TFT server, trading in stuff GGG never meant to be traded - but playing the game.

For people like you, playing all the time and trading a lot, Harvest might ne broken. Luckily, you aren't neither the blueprint of a PoE player, nor the average PoE player. Players like you will always find a way to obtain "the best" items. Good for you. But I really couldn't care how easy it is for you :)
Who is that mythic average player then? Because going by challenge data the average player probably barely reaches red maps, doesn't kill Sirus 8 and likely sees less than 5 good harvest crafts a league under the current system, I would imagine that comparing the gear of these players in heist league vs now there is barely a noticeable difference whereas the top end has vastly better gear now than they would have in a harvest-less system. So why exactly is it good for the "average player" that the top 10% get vastly better gear now?

I doubt you are correct on that, but we don't know as only GGG has the data. I think that harvest makes crafting available to the players and especially increases longevity of the game by a lot.

If you haven't noticed yet, at a certain point with a decent (not broken meta build), you will always run into a wall and forced to be trading in order to get better gear.

But the majority of people - and I am 100% positive on that statement - doesn't like excessive trading in an action RPG. It's just a nuisance.

Making crafting more accessible to the average player was the right step. More people will play the game longer. Again, we don't have the data, but intuition tells me that.

The only people whining are the ones who are now not alone at the top anymore. Cannot offer mirror services anymore. Cannot sell pixels for real money anymore. What a pity.

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2916050

Harvest challenge statistics, something like 20% of players reach 12 challenges halfway into the league, I don't think there are many people farming Sirus 8 that don't get 12 challenges done.

The whole narrative about people complaining that now others can get to the top is also completely made up, nowhere is anyone complaining about that anywhere, the issue that harvest makes happen is that endgame progression is cut short way earlier than if harvest wasn't around.

Mirror Services still exist, crafters still make bank (maybe more so than in other leagues since knowledge pays off a lot) and most importantly the quicker it is to reach the full endgame the easier it is to farm mirrors off of fractured maps or endgame bosses.

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stnikolauswagne เขียน:

I guess with „Cannot Roll Caster“ and then Augmenting influence 3 times on open prefixes its more likely than not to hit these mods in the prefix and then the suffix is just a matter of add/remove fire (WIth crafted Fire Res blocking the slam obviously), but it still seems like a weird example for the shit that harvest brings out.

Take the Meta Cold-BV Sceptre for example:

These are both obscenely strong weapons for any kind of Cold BV Build, would have easily been mirror tier in any other league and can now be hit within like 15 harvest crafts with zero risk, which I find far more egregious.

Pure item editor if you know what you're doing as I said and the guy didn't even know how to do it that's how much knowledge some of these people defending it have it's so FUCKING STRONG.

https://clips.twitch.tv/AmericanPlayfulLegSmoocherZ Take this example of Alkaiser's Axe it is currently the strongest axe in HC right now in terms of a 2 hander undisputed king in the league and do you know how he did it? Harvest he didn't do any jagged fossils any of that non-sense all he did was Put a fucking Elder influence in the things and go to town until perfection.

I personally don't care when it comes to power being given to me that's fine that's dandy but if people are saying it's not OP are so caught in the I'M THE VICTIM IT'S NOT OP IT MAKES ME VIABLE TO PLAY THIS GAME well then I'm going to dig my claws into you.

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stnikolauswagne เขียน:

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2916050

Harvest challenge statistics, something like 20% of players reach 12 challenges halfway into the league, I don't think there are many people farming Sirus 8 that don't get 12 challenges done.


The whole narrative about people complaining that now others can get to the top is also completely made up, nowhere is anyone complaining about that anywhere, the issue that harvest makes happen is that endgame progression is cut short way earlier than if harvest wasn't around.

Mirror Services still exist, crafters still make bank (maybe more so than in other leagues since knowledge pays off a lot) and most importantly the quicker it is to reach the full endgame the easier it is to farm mirrors off of fractured maps or endgame bosses.

What a nonsense, in this thread there is plenty of proof. The whole and only reason to complain about harvest being OP is for certain players that they want to prevent the majority of other players to become as strong as they are. Because how can they feel strong if everyone else is also strong? How can they feel "elitist" anymore? There is just no other motivation except for making others worse.

The motivation is certainly not that the game feels too easy. Because then, I am telling you, go to HCSSF or make your own private league. We don't care. Plenty of people have argued in this thread that Harvest is fine the way it is.

In the end what matters is only if the average player is happier with a change, and not if only you are happier. I bet the number of people playing POE longer per league will increase. You don't realize that for the game developers everything else is irrelevant. Player numbers are a better reflection of reality than some forum posts are.

Alkaiser made an insane axe. That is not allowed folks. Back to the mudlands with all of you. Harvest is goners! Good riddance!

Maybe GGG should have added new types of exalted and annulment orbs gated by certain map bosses. Similar as the influenced exalted orbs which can only drop from conquerors. This would allow for more deterministic crafting. For example Caldera boss rarely drops 'fire exalted orbs' which let the player remove/add a random fire modifier. Then again the rich would gather all the orbs as they have unlimited funds and the poor plebs will remain in the dirt again.

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I_NO เขียน:

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stnikolauswagne เขียน:

I guess with „Cannot Roll Caster“ and then Augmenting influence 3 times on open prefixes its more likely than not to hit these mods in the prefix and then the suffix is just a matter of add/remove fire (WIth crafted Fire Res blocking the slam obviously), but it still seems like a weird example for the shit that harvest brings out.

Take the Meta Cold-BV Sceptre for example:

These are both obscenely strong weapons for any kind of Cold BV Build, would have easily been mirror tier in any other league and can now be hit within like 15 harvest crafts with zero risk, which I find far more egregious.

Pure item editor if you know what you're doing as I said and the guy didn't even know how to do it that's how much knowledge some of these people defending it have it's so FUCKING STRONG.

https://clips.twitch.tv/AmericanPlayfulLegSmoocherZ Take this example of Alkaiser's Axe it is currently the strongest axe in HC right now in terms of a 2 hander undisputed king in the league and do you know how he did it? Harvest he didn't do any jagged fossils any of that non-sense all he did was Put a fucking Elder influence in the things and go to town until perfection.

I personally don't care when it comes to power being given to me that's fine that's dandy but if people are saying it's not OP are so caught in the I'M THE VICTIM IT'S NOT OP IT MAKES ME VIABLE TO PLAY THIS GAME well then I'm going to dig my claws into you.

Using this extreme of an example is dumb imo. This doesn't represent most players by far.

That being said, anyone that puts in the time and effort of someone like Alk has the right to be rewarded accordingly.

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Dan1986 เขียน:

What a nonsense, in this thread there is plenty of proof. The whole and only reason to complain about harvest being OP is for certain players that they want to prevent the majority of other players to become as strong as they are. Because how can they feel strong if everyone else is also strong? How can they feel "elitist" anymore? There is just no other motivation except for making others worse.

The motivation is certainly not that the game feels too easy. Because then, I am telling you, go to HCSSF or make your own private league. We don't care. Plenty of people have argued in this thread that Harvest is fine the way it is.

In the end what matters is only if the average player is happier with a change, and not if only you are happier. I bet the number of people playing POE longer per league will increase. You don't realize that for the game developers everything else is irrelevant. Player numbers are a better reflection of reality than some forum posts are.

Do you have anything to back anything you are saying up? Where are you getting this proof that the average player is now better off from? From the data we have (challenge statistics for harvest, metamorph and delirium) it seems like the amount of content that players complete is roughly the same accross leagues, player retention stats from steam don‘t show harvest being significantly better than other leagues, so why is it such an accepted fact that the average player benefits massively from harvest?

And please, stop it with the elitist stuff, I promise you that the evil 0.1% are just as wealthy compared to the average player as they were in non-harvest leagues, no one is losing sleep over their ability to print mirrors this league, the vast majority of players are only now reaching the level of content that the 0.1% reached on the first weekend after league launch, harvest is not gonna magically make everyone else catch up.

And „Play in a mode where Harvest is not a thing“ is not really good proof for „harvest is fine as is“, yeah no shit sherlock if I switched to SSF I couldn‘t abuse Harvest as hard but I also wouldn‘t have access to Watcher‘s Eye‘s or a Headhunter or Badge of the Brootherhood so I‘d rather stay in Trade league where those things are achieveable. If there was a way to enable the Private League mods in Trade League I‘d happily do that but since thats not an option I am stuck with Delirious 100% maps as the hardest form of endgame and harvest trivializes that.

Like you guys love playing the victim for some unknown reason and go THE ELITIST WANT TO TAKE MY THINGS AWAY! hahahaha

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I_NO เขียน:

Like you guys love playing the victim for some unknown reason and go THE ELITIST WANT TO TAKE MY THINGS AWAY! hahahaha

„Elitists“: League gets boring quickly because Harvest makes finishing off items trivial.

„The average player“: SEE! They are worried that other people can now afford their things, watch me kill this Sirus 8 4 weeks into the lague due to Harvest.

Its honestly two different conversations happening and there is almost no point in engaging since the two sides barely play the same game, harvest or no.

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Dan1986 เขียน:

I think that harvest makes crafting easier available to the majority of players and especially increases longevity of the game by a lot.

True.

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Dan1986 เขียน:

Making crafting more accessible to the average player was the right step. More people will play the game longer.

Unfortunately, they brick it by that stupid storage cap, though. That really annoys me the most. That and the fact that they've made it exceedingly rare.

Honestly, at this point I don't care anymore. Everyone is taking extreme stances to promote what they would like to see in the game most, irrespective of whether it is good for the game. Harvest is, in general, definitely good for the game. So here is my stance:

They should remove the Horticrafting storage limit completely, make remove/add/augment crafts more frequent, and make grove encounters more frequent. That would make the game a lot more enjoyable for me, and would certainly help its longevity for me.

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stnikolauswagne เขียน:

Do you have anything to back anything you are saying up? Where are you getting this proof that the average player is now better off from? From the data we have (challenge statistics for harvest, metamorph and delirium) it seems like the amount of content that players complete is roughly the same accross leagues, player retention stats from steam don‘t show harvest being significantly better than other leagues, so why is it such an accepted fact that the average player benefits massively from harvest?

lololol this is just clear, there are plenty of youtube-videos on how to craft (also by using harvest) in this league. Also streamers show how to do it all the time. People know.
And I explained it very well, once you hit this "wall" with an unpopular build, you need to craft good gear to progress (or you have to trade). And this is where most people stop, which I have seen plenty of times by talking to friends.

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stnikolauswagne เขียน:

And please, stop it with the elitist stuff, I promise you that the evil 0.1% are just as wealthy compared to the average player as they were in non-harvest leagues, no one is losing sleep over their ability to print mirrors this league, the vast majority of players are only now reaching the level of content that the 0.1% reached on the first weekend after league launch, harvest is not gonna magically make everyone else catch up.

100% I promise you I wont stop with this, you have literally no clue what you are talking about. There is a lot of profit to be made from RMT/selling exalts or mirrors. It matters for some people, which are crying now the most.

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stnikolauswagne เขียน:

And „Play in a mode where Harvest is not a thing“ is not really good proof for „harvest is fine as is“, yeah no shit sherlock if I switched to SSF I couldn‘t abuse Harvest as hard but I also wouldn‘t have access to Watcher‘s Eye‘s or a Headhunter or Badge of the Brootherhood so I‘d rather stay in Trade league where those things are achieveable. If there was a way to enable the Private League mods in Trade League I‘d happily do that but since thats not an option I am stuck with Delirious 100% maps as the hardest form of endgame and harvest trivializes that.

I am so sad for you that you cannot challenge yourself anymore. How about you close your eyes while playing? Or just ignore harvest. Honestly I dont care.